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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old January 26th, 2001, 00:36   #1
TDIwagon
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: Norway
Default Help - fuel cut-off valve problem?

Hi,

I guess my 98 A3 Golf TDI is at last striked by the infamous fuel cut-off valve O-ring problem. The symptoms were as described:

Monday: Driving home from work. After 2-3 km engine stopped for a short moment and started up again automatically. I was driving in 3rd gear, 40-50 km/h.

Thursday: Driving home from work. 5th gear, 80 km/h. Engine stopped. Car stopped. Engine started normally when using startermotor.

Tuesday: 10 min after a 30 km trip engine reved up to 2000 rpm during a restart.

I haven't noticed any powerloss. Car runs normally otherwise.
Can anybody that has experienced the o-ring problem confirm these symptoms?

I took a look at the fuel cut-off valve at the end of the fuel pump yesterday. The valve has a black-white wire attached with a nut on the "dome-shaped" top of it, right?
Do we have pictures of the fuel cut-off valve?

Is there differences in behaviour between the fuel cut-off valve O-ring and the 109-relay issues?
After 3 years with the TDI, maybe I should start driving around with a spare 109-relay in the glovebox...

------------------
Tin Nguyen
1998 Golf GL TDI Variant
Visit TDIwagon's homepage: http://home.no.net/thng/
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Old January 26th, 2001, 04:49   #2
Ric Woodruff
BANNED, Ric went to Coventry.
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Default Re: Help - fuel cut-off valve problem?

The reving to 2,000 RPM sounds like the cut-off valve, but the engine suddenly quitting sounds like Relay 109.

------------------
Ric Woodruff

"Worry gives small things a big shadow"


1998 Jetta TDI Custom Sport

[This message has been edited by Ric Woodruff (edited January 26, 2001).]
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Old January 26th, 2001, 07:02   #3
dmark
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: W. Hartford, CT
Default Re: Help - fuel cut-off valve problem?

My 98 A3 always experienced the starting surge along with low power. The nut holding the wire is 8mm and the valve body is 24mm. Last time I experieced this I found the O ring just floating around the black valve stem. Reseat on the goldish portion of the removes actuator. No seat on mine. Sometimes the problem goes away after a restart. Sometimes not for a week.

1998 A3 72K
PiperX panel
Upsolute
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Old January 29th, 2001, 01:23   #4
TDIwagon
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: Norway
Default Re: Help - fuel cut-off valve problem?

I haven't experienced the warm-starting surge for almost a week. I planned to check the o-ring this weekend, but was too busy driving around. On saturday I did check the 109 relay. It was black and is accessable through the fuse panel opening if you have small hands. I discovered that many of the relays and fuses were somehow loose and pushed them back into their places. I guess diesel vibration has shaken them loose after 3 years of driving.

I don't know if the loose 109 relay was the reason for the engine stalling problem, but I will get a new re-designed 109 relay anyway.

------------------
Tin Nguyen
1998 Golf GL TDI Variant
Visit TDIwagon's homepage: http://home.no.net/thng/
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Old January 30th, 2001, 23:23   #5
TDIwagon
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Default Re: Help - fuel cut-off valve problem?

OK, the story continues.

I was at the local VW dealer yesterday to purchase a new relay 109 for my TDI. I gave them the old partnumber 357 906 381 A, and the database system automatically replied with the message "New partnumber is 1J0 906 381 A". Price was about 20 USD.

After replacing the relay I discovered that the new one was smaller allowing air to circulate around itself. I guess this helps preventing overheating of the relay. I also opened the old one to see it's internal condition. It appeared to be OK, no signs of overheating or bad connection anywhere. It's now in the glovebox as a "emergency spare part". For your records I noticed the old relay had the inscription: "Tunesia - 07/97". The new 1J0 ... relay was made in Portugal.

Anyway, I also did an attempt to check the fuel cut-off valve o-ring. Since my biggest wrench was a 19 mm, I tried to loosen the valve body with the adjustable wrench. This was not possible due to the little space around the valve body. Next out was the 24 mm socket wrench, but fuel lines also made it impossible to put the socket on the valve. I guess a 24 mm ring-type wrench would be the right tool for this job. Any comments or advices are welcome!

When my car started acting weird, I sent an email to VW of Norway with questions describing the symptoms (Friday). On Monday they replied confirming that the stalling problem might be caused by a faulty relay 109. Anyway, they didn't have any experiences with the fuel cut-off valve o-ring. I was told to contact the local dealer to retrieve any generated error codes from the ECU. What they didn't know is there are no error codes, and I would have to pay a fortune for diagnosing the problem! If they could at all!

------------------
Tin Nguyen
1998 Golf GL TDI Variant
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Old January 31st, 2001, 07:37   #6
dzl
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: VA,USA
Default Re: Help - fuel cut-off valve problem?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ric Woodruff:
The reving to 2,000 RPM sounds like the cut-off valve, but the engine suddenly quitting sounds like Relay 109.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had very similar problems the day before yesterday. The car would just die. After I would wait couple of minutes it will start but run for only few minutes and die again. I made it to the stealership, left $228.00 yesterday and drove away with a new relay. Today I checked the site and learned about "the" 109. I called the stealership and they confirmed that the $27.00 relay on my receipt was "109".
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Old January 31st, 2001, 09:07   #7
98JettaTDI
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Elyria, OH
TDI(s): 1998 Jetta
Fuel Economy: 46 mpg ave
Default Re: Help - fuel cut-off valve problem?

I had the o-ring problem on my '98 A3 Jetta. The symptoms you are mentioning aren't the same I had:

One time start in which engine rev'ed past 2000. Following this start, every time I drove the car there was not power, even at higher rev's. The best way I can explain it, is that it wouldn't 'pull'.
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Old January 31st, 2001, 10:14   #8
Karl Roenick
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Clifton Park, NY, US
Default Re: Help - fuel cut-off valve problem?

That's seems to be a nice service in Norway where they will answer emails intelligently like that. Nothing here like it in the US, as far a I know.
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Old January 31st, 2001, 23:35   #9
TDIwagon
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Default Re: Help - fuel cut-off valve problem?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 98JettaTDI:

One time start in which engine rev'ed past 2000. Following this start, every time I drove the car there was not power, even at higher rev's. The best way I can explain it, is that it wouldn't 'pull'.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My car is pulling normally, but sometimes I get a feeling of hesitation when driving very slowly in rush-hour traffic. I will get the right wrench this weekend to check the o-ring to examinate and learn about the problem in case I need to do this operation very quickly one day. The whole job shouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes.



------------------
Tin Nguyen
1998 Golf GL TDI Variant
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Old February 2nd, 2001, 01:11   #10
WOOCHOW
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Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Griswold, CT USA
Fuel Economy: 50/47
Default Re: Help - fuel cut-off valve problem?

Each time the O-ring has failed on my car, I experienced SIGNIFICANT power loss so I suspect that is not the problem with your car. However replacement of the O-ring is rather simple so it is probably wise to replace it just to rule out that as the cause of your problem. The last time I had the problem, I replaced the entire valve (it wasn't expensive) and haven't had a problem in over a year. Perhaps VW upgraded the valve body?

------------------


1998 Black Jetta TDi
Bilstein HD Struts/shocks
TDi Tuning Box
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Old February 7th, 2001, 15:05   #11
BriGuy375
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: State College, PA USA
Fuel Economy: 50/40/36
Default Re: Help - fuel cut-off valve problem?

does anyone have pictures of actually pulling out the fuel cutoss switch and where the oring should actually be? i am hesitant to remove the thing becuase i dont think its been touched in 4 years and im afraid of what ill break. also, with the oring problem, can you see a steady stream of small air bubbles in the fuel line when the motor is running cold?? thanks for the help...
brian
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Old February 7th, 2001, 23:21   #12
TDIwagon
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Location: Norway
Default Re: Help - fuel cut-off valve problem?

Good idea, Brian!

------------------
Tin Nguyen
1998 Golf GL TDI Variant
Visit TDIwagon's homepage: http://home.no.net/thng/
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