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Old November 24th, 2016, 10:12   #31
atc98002
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Originally Posted by SkiRep View Post
So has VW announced a strategy for dealing with the 12,000 unsold units sitting on dealer lots? A sophisticated fix needed to get through CARB regulations appears unlikely. Will VW ship them to China or Bolivia or perhaps roll them off a cliff?
The agreement with the US Government says they can't be exported, so if they end up with no fix I would expect them to be crushed.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 12:24   #32
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They will be back. It's only a matter of time. CARBs dream of a "zero emission" all-electric fleet is impossible and it's sad that time is being wasted pandering to their stupidity. We need a blend of power trains. Big diesels for hauling, little diesel hybrids for high mileage, DI gas hybrids and all-electrics for city cars and some other uses. No one power train will satisfy everyone.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 13:21   #33
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Originally Posted by SkiRep View Post
So has VW announced a strategy for dealing with the 12,000 unsold units sitting on dealer lots? A sophisticated fix needed to get through CARB regulations appears unlikely. Will VW ship them to China or Bolivia or perhaps roll them off a cliff?
I'd put my money on a fix being approved in the very near future.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 13:21   #34
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15 years ago everyone said GM killed diesels in the US. Now VW is punting and GM has a number of diesel vehicles. And I doubt the new presidential elect will encourage VW to import more cars.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 13:34   #35
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He probably won't be pushing for tighter environmental regs either.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 15:21   #36
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A dozen violator TDI's pollute less than one brain dead idiot in a modified full size pickup, rollin' coal. Why don't they go after those numbskulls?

They should relax car regs, or tighten trucks to be fair.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 15:24   #37
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They are, in fact. The EPA has levied hefty fines on a number of makers of tuning boxes that make those truck roll coal.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 15:50   #38
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Need to fine the owners that modified them and intentionally drive them that way. If done properly and driven properly they won't roll coal.

I modified a couple of TDIs that I owned and it made them better in all ways and I never saw smoke.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 17:12   #39
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Originally Posted by diesel4ever View Post
It's going to be interesting to see the values of pre-common rail cars in coming days.
I wonder if it's the same thing in Canada, 'no more VW diesels'.
Good question. Here's another, what's my 2000' ALH Jetta now worth with 26k original pampered miles?
People laughed at me (barely) driving a 17 year old vehicle that still looks like new.

Last edited by lord diesel; November 24th, 2016 at 17:14.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 18:57   #40
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Compared to 15 billion it's pocket change.
The magnitude of Volkswagen's fine is largely due their continued deception after being caught. They were approached by CARB and the EPA a year before the scandal broke. If they would've dealt straight with them then, it would've impacted the fine. Even after the scandal broke, they kept the game going longer before giving up. Poor crisis management cost them the 15 billion. EPA fines are usually relative wrist slaps for large corporations. But the more you evade, the more it's going to cost you.

If you know you're guilty, it's easier to cop a plea than to keep claiming innocent. You probably are going to loose in the end. The evidence is easy to find with 500,000 cars on the road. Why continue to be obstenant.

My problem isn't so much that they cheated. It was they handled it poorly after the fact. Ford and Hyundai stepped up early and took the hit. Their fines reflect that.

I do feel the fine is disproportionate to GM's ignition switch issue where real deaths were directly associated with the scandal.

The government didn't "do anything" to VW. They (VW) dug their heals in even when the jig was up. They almost were asking for the big fine. There was nothing to gain in the delaying action. They ended up in the same place, but it cost them more and they gained nothing. Who plays these games with shareholder money, the company, and jobs at risk. Man up, take the hit and move forward. Holding out just amplifies the problem (and the fine). It's poor crisis management.

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Old November 24th, 2016, 19:17   #41
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It is the consumer paying the price, we wont have the choice of VW diesels.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 19:26   #42
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The cars met emissions on the EPA dyno. Why can't they just delete the offending code? I know it costs some mileage and power, but is it that big a deal?
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Old November 24th, 2016, 20:17   #43
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Originally Posted by pdq import repair View Post
Need to fine the owners that modified them and intentionally drive them that way. If done properly and driven properly they won't roll coal.

I modified a couple of TDIs that I owned and it made them better in all ways and I never saw smoke.
Wow really? Amazing, can you tell us more?

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Originally Posted by Random_Vibration
My problem isn't so much that they cheated. It was they handled it poorly after the fact. Ford and Hyundai stepped up early and took the hit. Their fines reflect that.
Monday morning quarterbacking, you have no way of determining that a different path would lead to a markedly different outcome. I don't think that VW 'owning up to it immediately' alone would make a 15 BILLION dollar fine a 900 million dollar fine aka GM's ignition switch issue...which they also DENIED repeatedly over many years.

The dollars in this case just don't make sense.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 21:12   #44
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Wow really? Amazing, can you tell us more?
Monday morning quarterbacking, you have no way of determining that a different path would lead to a markedly different outcome. I don't think that VW 'owning up to it immediately' alone would make a 15 BILLION dollar fine a 900 million dollar fine aka GM's ignition switch issue...which they also DENIED repeatedly over many years.
The dollars in this case just don't make sense.
Nor do you have any way of determining that cooperation would've helped or not.

I have worked for two corporations who have violated state and federal environment laws and were caught. Our cooperation did affect the outcome. In the first case, the state waived the fines due to our cooperation and a promise that the hazardous waste would be handled within a specified time. The second was quite serious, a violation of the Federal Clean Water act and the required payment of a small fine. Most of the money we spent was on remediation, prevention, and monitoring, not the fine. We proactively worked with the state and federal governments and the fine was accessed after we implimented some of the fixes. In our case, the fine was response influenced. The EPA and state regarded it as an effective "working with industry story" and we avoided a larger fine and significant oversight. If we had dodged or delayed, I'm sure it would've been resolved in a courthouse too like VW. The same or more renediation, prevention, and monitoring would've happened since we were only ones around who could've put what we did in the water. We just would've paid more going to court and our cooperation would've influenced the judge when the fine was set.

If you look at how violations of the Federal Clean Air Act have been handled to date, cooperation matters. I have no way of knowing except by looking at the fines leveled to date. You have zero evidence to contrary so your belief is no more valid than mine. They're not the first ones to violate it and won't be the last.

No one said it would reduce the fine from 15 billion to 900 million except you. Don't put those words in my mouth. They came out of yours.

Last edited by Random_Vibration; November 24th, 2016 at 21:56.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 21:36   #45
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Yeesh. What were you guys dumping in the water?
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