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Old December 6th, 2016, 13:58   #151
turbovan+tdi
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Originally Posted by panthers89fan90 View Post
That's a tad bit harsh. I don't think it makes drivers dumber. I mean self driving cars aren't out yet, so somebody still has to maneuver the vehicle unless you drive a Tesla. And my new car(not a VW) is a 6-speed, so that keeps me busy. They don't need all these options, but it makes for one comfortable ride.
.
I stand by what I said. One of the biggest reason's for crash's here is Cel phones and other gadgets. Car's aren't supposed to have every bell and whistle known to man, it makes you sleepy, lol.

Just drove a 2016 Civic, what a PITA to navigate the radio and turn signal camera's, really?
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Old December 7th, 2016, 06:31   #152
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Originally Posted by turbovan+tdi View Post
SNIP... Just drove a 2016 Civic, what a PITA to navigate the radio and turn signal camera's, really?
Yes, very poor user interface on a 2017 Honda HR-V we recently test drove. What really upset us was its CVT performance which was AWFUL, barely able to get out of its own way as we attempted to merge on an interstate. We test drove it because we can't get a new 2017 Tiguan TDI DSG, which was our plan. We're keeping our 2015 Golf S TDI 6-speed and our 2015 Golf R DSG, of course, but the several CVT's we've tested are really LAME and out of the question!
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Old December 7th, 2016, 10:57   #153
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Sure there is. Quite a few new gassers are only a few mpg behind with about the same power. And regular unleaded is cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I like TDI's, but the maintenance cost and high risk of something expensive breaking might not be worth it.
Looking at TDI vs TSI numbers on Fuelly, the TSI mileage seems to run 20 to 25 percent lower than comparable TDi models -- the higher EPA numbers don't seem to exist in real-world driving.
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Old December 7th, 2016, 12:19   #154
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Looking at TDI vs TSI numbers on Fuelly, the TSI mileage seems to run 20 to 25 percent lower than comparable TDi models -- the higher EPA numbers don't seem to exist in real-world driving.
That's okay. Trump will take care of that LOL!!!
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Old December 7th, 2016, 16:59   #155
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My prediction is that diesel fuel prices will rise so exponentially that returns on fuel cost will outweigh MPG returns. This is what happened in my country of origin. Making diesel ownership only a marginal advantage. Before manufacturers started making small diesel engines, diesel fuel was approximately half the price of gasoline. Since the late 80's the price has crept up with increased production of small DERV engines. I know it comes down to basic economics of supply and demand, but if you do the math by bringing in emission equipment maintenance, its almost cost prohibitive. I don't often make political statements but its liberal fascism in the extreme. The EPA doesn't want diesel and they will do everything in their increasing power to curb its production for small engines because that's what they can hit right now.
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Old December 7th, 2016, 22:08   #156
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Originally Posted by Graham Line View Post
Looking at TDI vs TSI numbers on Fuelly, the TSI mileage seems to run 20 to 25 percent lower than comparable TDi models -- the higher EPA numbers don't seem to exist in real-world driving.
Having had 2 as long term rentals, you are correct, in real driving, the MPG is awful in comparison to a TDI.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 07:44   #157
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This issue of 'plain vanilla' gasoline engines catching up to light duty diesel engines in terms of efficiency keeps coming up but I do not think the laws of physics will allow it. With a diesel engine maybe 'you can have your cake and eat it too' but with a gasoline engine, that is unlikely in my view.

Also since, in North America, we get such a meager selection of light duty diesel passenger cars then it does appear that hybrid gasoline cars are the most efficient (for example the Prius and the like). However in other parts of the world they have similar size vehicles with smaller diesel engines and with hybrid like technologies that can compete head to head with gasoline hybrid passenger cars and give you an overall better performance (torque).

Of course electrical vehicles are not included in this discussion :-)
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Old December 8th, 2016, 08:21   #158
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I agree.

The supposed gasoline engines closing the efficiency gap on diesels issue really hasn't materialized so far, even with GDI now dominating gasoline engine technology.

There are only 13 diesel vehicles officially certified in the U.S. for 2017 (actually 11 since the GM Colorado and Canyon pickup trucks are twins). The gap between the diesel and gasoline (ALL GDI) versions of the same vehicles is almost 36% based on official EPA mileage data, which is actually greater than the 30% greater that's been thrown around for over 20 years. Yes, some of those are 4-cylinder diesels vs. 6-cylinder GDIs, but even in the case of comparable performance, the gap is still over 30%.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 09:55   #159
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To add, some of the gas alternatives do get great highway mpg but they tank in the city, whereas diesel really shines. Not a DI gas engine but my brothers MDX literally empty's the tank in 300 km's in the city but highway, gets 700+ km's.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 14:08   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbovan+tdi View Post
To add, some of the gas alternatives do get great highway mpg but they tank in the city, whereas diesel really shines. Not a DI gas engine but my brothers MDX literally empty's the tank in 300 km's in the city but highway, gets 700+ km's.
Yes, SUV/truck + gasoline engine + automatic transmission = very mediocre MPG
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Old December 8th, 2016, 14:25   #161
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Originally Posted by tikal View Post
Yes, SUV/truck + gasoline engine + automatic transmission = very mediocre MPG
You are right, but it seems that Americans are lined up to buy them and assuming that 4-wheel drive is absolutely necessary.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 16:22   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratcher View Post
My prediction is that diesel fuel prices will rise so exponentially that returns on fuel cost will outweigh MPG returns. This is what happened in my country of origin. Making diesel ownership only a marginal advantage. Before manufacturers started making small diesel engines, diesel fuel was approximately half the price of gasoline. Since the late 80's the price has crept up with increased production of small DERV engines. I know it comes down to basic economics of supply and demand, but if you do the math by bringing in emission equipment maintenance, its almost cost prohibitive. I don't often make political statements but its liberal fascism in the extreme. The EPA doesn't want diesel and they will do everything in their increasing power to curb its production for small engines because that's what they can hit right now.
Gasoline prices will no doubt be up there too but diesel will still have an advantage in terms of cost per mile.

IMHO, the gas/diesel price gap in will narrow starting in 2017 when gasoline in the USA has to become ultra-low Sulphur in preparation for DI gassers to be equipped with GPFs. I'm predicting there will be a small but permanent price increase due to the cost of Sulphur removal on top of all other factors affecting gasoline prices, similar to what happened to diesel fuel in 2006. Exactly how much of a gasoline price increase we will see is unknown. In my area diesel prices are a little higher than regular unleaded gasoline but lower than mid-grade gasoline. I'm predicting the coming gasoline price increase will help level the playing field for fuel prices.

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Why DIESEL is better:
http://webpages.charter.net/lmarz/emissions.html
http://webpages.charter.net/lmarz/efficiency.html
http://webpages.charter.net/lmarz/performance.html
http://webpages.charter.net/lmarz/emissions2014.html
http://webpages.charter.net/lmarz/emissions2016.html
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Old December 8th, 2016, 16:26   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbovan+tdi View Post
To add, some of the gas alternatives do get great highway mpg but they tank in the city, whereas diesel really shines. Not a DI gas engine but my brothers MDX literally empty's the tank in 300 km's in the city but highway, gets 700+ km's.
That's not a characteristic of the fuel... that's a characteristic of the car. The BMW 335d gets ~50% better mpg on the highway... only 23 mpg in the city.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 17:23   #164
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We need more effective pollution, have you driven around Vancouver lately during rush hour? ;-)
I did 2 weeks ago and pollution was the last thing I was worried about, Although the air is amazingly clean in the city center. Noticed a very high percentage of vw/audis and Asian cars to American cars there.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 20:26   #165
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I did 2 weeks ago and pollution was the last thing I was worried about..
It was a joke, more pollution equals more deaths equals less traffic
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