BEW glow plugs, which ECU flash?

From what I can gather on the glow plug recall issue, it seems to be there's both a hardware change (the plugs, ceramic vs steel) and a software change. And it is important that the plugs be matched to the flash.

I have no history on the car, if the flash was done or plugs were ever replaced.

I do have a full VAGCOM that I can scan with. Is there a way for me to tell what flash I have? And from that, which glow plugs I should get?

Thanks!

Check to see which plugs you have first.

Original (from the factory): 7v Bosch
First TSB/recall: 5v Bosch
Second recall to fix the first recall: 7v NGK

If you still have the original 7v Bosch in there, then you will still have the original software, and that is good (because that software has no problems starting the car when it is cold). You can just swap in the 7v NGKs, and the software will work fine. I've done this on countless BEWs and BHWs. Works great.

If you have the 5v Bosch in there, and you are not experiencing any cold start problems, then leave them be. You can still get these plugs for service replacement if needed. If you ARE having issues starting in the cold and you have these plugs, you will need to have the ECU reflashed, and install the 7v NGK plugs. You can also install the updated glow controller, but I do not think this is absolutely necessary.

If you don't want to go to a dealer for a reflash (they may give you the deer-in-headlights look), most all the aftermarket tuners know about the BEW/BHW glow plug craziness and can update your ECU for you to the latest 7v plug friendly software.

There is a way you can tell what version you have with VCDS, but I forget which one is which. It has been mentioned somewhere on this site before though.

I asked my dealers service manager for a flash and he could not quote me a price just a "probably 1/2 hour" labor "if they could even find the software I wanted". Turns out I already had the second recall flash with the second recall revision D controller module installed, but the dealer mismatched and put 5v plugs in -- that's why they kept burning up.. Talk about a mess.

Even still, if you cant figure it out yourself my suggestion would be to grab the both the first and second revision TSB's and take it to the service desk and ask them if its been performed.

Yep, lots of dealers messed this up. And to be honest, Volkswagen themselves messed it up. The cars were fine from the get go, but for whatever reason (they said Bosch stopped making the original 7v plugs???) they had to change stuff, and then somehow in the process "forgot" how to make a diesel start in the cold.

Just one of those instances that make it hard to be a Volkswagen fan...

But they at least got it all sorted out in the end.

The 5v steel GP's have been in my Golf with no related ECU reflashes for many years with no problems. They seem to create less smoke than the original 7v ceramics.
On a side note, I would like to check VCDS to see what my software is. I had a reflash for a different TSB which involved a thermostatically controlled heater hose was installed on my ATF cooler. This was voluntarily, but my Ultra Gauge likes to default to the ATF temperature when I restart a warm engine.

Any reflash done through Volkswagen is just done to whatever the newest at that time for that VIN was. And the way it is done, the actual person at the dealer does not really have any say in the matter. It is not like you can pick and choose which software version you want, or which parts of which software you want. It is just "update to newest" across the internet.

Which is why so many of these cars had issues, because there were three software updates BEFORE any glow system goofiness started. Not all cars would have required all of them, though. It would have depended on build date. In other words, a 2004 BEW Jetta that left the factory in November of 2003 would have had an earlier software version than a 2004 BEW Jetta that left that same factory in April of 2004. Same car, same engine, same model year, but always things like that get updated. This is true of any manufacturer.

Just as a little aside rant, it seems really stupid the ECU would have anything to do with the voltage on the plugs. That should be built into the glow plug controller as a MODULE. But from what little I can gather -- and I'm not 100% on this -- it sounds like the ECU puts out a PWM signal to approximate the voltage it wants and the controller is only responsible for repeating it to the plugs with some mosfets.

The reflash I am referring to was strictly for this TSB that I mentioned. "Customer complains about lack of cabin heat" or words to that affect. I can't remember the number, nor can I find the PDF that had been posted here long ago. I brought my Golf to the dealer but had to wait a month or so for the hose to arrive. When it came in they changed the hose and did the reflash. They did manage to fry the ECU, and had to install a new one. It must have been one of those over seas connections which I was unaware of at the time.
I was just wondering if VCDS could identify the software that was installed at this time.

oilhammer said:

Check to see which plugs you have first.
Original (from the factory): 7v Bosch
First TSB/recall: 5v Bosch
Second recall to fix the first recall: 7v NGK
If you still have the original 7v Bosch in there, then you will still have the original software, and that is good (because that software has no problems starting the car when it is cold). You can just swap in the 7v NGKs, and the software will work fine. I've done this on countless BEWs and BHWs. Works great.

Click to expand...

Not to go against the grain here, but my BEW with original software and new 7v shielded ceramics wouldn't start when it got really cold. Only thing that has fixed this was the last recall (ECU flash, GP module + glowplugs).. Unless perhaps that recall fixed a bad glowplug module I didn't know about? (Who knows)

gatz said:

Just as a little aside rant, it seems really stupid the ECU would have anything to do with the voltage on the plugs. That should be built into the glow plug controller as a MODULE. But from what little I can gather -- and I'm not 100% on this -- it sounds like the ECU puts out a PWM signal to approximate the voltage it wants and the controller is only responsible for repeating it to the plugs with some mosfets.

Click to expand...

Well the glow system is not just a cold start aid, but also a post cold start warmup emissions reduction aid. And every modern diesel I know of has the engine controller work the glow system, typically by controlling some other device that toggles the actual load VAG and MB work their system in pretty much an identical manner: ECU sends the signal to the glow controller, then the glow controller duty cycles as needed until the ECU says to stop. It is how the OBD can tie into it as well. The TDI (especially the newer ones) are not like the old IDI VAG diesels.

Or if none of the above works, you can get yourself a coolant heater, my 04 had 1st recall done and VW wanted $ to do the second, coolant heater fixed my cold start problem on the BEW.

I've got a Frostheater and it works great, except I have no place to plug it in at work so I can only use it half the time. And yes, I'm troubleshooting a cold start issue. On sub-20 degree (F) days, I usually have to KOnEOff through three cycles of glow plug, then it'll crank for about five seconds before turning over. This is better than previously, I advanced the timing to 1.5 degrees; before which I usually had to crank for 10-15 seconds.

So anybody know how to tell which flash by checking via VAGCOM? Dealer gives me deer in headlights look, as mentioned above; and judging by how much that was botched the first two times around I sure as heck don't want them touching it with no background.

Did some digging and found it.

Here is the thread about it: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306157
The actual TSB for 28F6/T9: http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/PD_GlowPlugTechBul_12-2010.pdf

The software you want will be 0282. I just scanned my car and sure enough that's what it's got. You can check yours with VCDS under 01-Engine, on the "Component and/or Version" line:

Friday,19,February,2016,00:16:31:00781
VCDS Version: Release 15.7.3 (x64)
Address 01: Engine
Control Module Part Number: 038 997 016 R
Component and/or Version: R4 1,9L EDC G000AG 0282
Software Coding: 0150034
Work Shop Code: WSC 08099

^ That post was for the latest revision 7V system. I *think* this link is for the 28E6/R8 revision 5V plugs:

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3419/vw_tb_PT01-08-28_1_.pdf

Says software version 1386

There might be other updates floating around too besides just glow plug updates. I can't seem to find just a simple chronological version / change log..

Exactly what I was after - thanks!

I have the 5V plugs but the tune was altered to use 7V
I replaced one plug after 5 years

Dimitri16V said:

I have the 5V plugs but the tune was altered to use 7V
I replaced one plug after 5 years

Click to expand...

Consider yourself lucky.. buckle up for my story.

I had random glow plug faults for a long time with this car which I kept fixed via harness reseating. This eventually stopped working but my multimeter ohm test did not show them burned out. So I finally replaced the harness. No change in symptoms. I also checked that I was receiving voltage from the controller, but I received strange voltages that were neither 5 nor 7V. I have a fluke 187 true RMS meter, but no oscilloscope. Well, a real head scratcher I thought.

After running out of ideas I tried the splice all 4 wires together method that's mentioned in the big GP thread. The idea is that if one plug is bad you fool the computer into thinking they all have the same resistance. Don't do it kids, it does NOT work on the more modern BEW platform. This burned them out good and proper right away. I found afterwards with my meter that this has the effect of causing pure 12V to come out of the GP controller. My theory is that the PWM signal alternates plugs, and if you tie them together you get 12V constant signal. Wish I had a scope to verify this but suffice to say, it finally boogered plugs good and proper. Now all of them test bad with ohm check.

At my wits end with this confusing situation I put the wiring back to stock and purchased a new set of 5V plugs. The ones I pulled out were 5V Bosch, so I went and purchased identical OEM 5V Bosch. Threw them in thinking "new harness, new plugs" this has to work. Well, after 3 weeks the GP light is back on and two of my brand new plugs test bad with ohm meter.

Finally at this point I looked under my cowl to see if maybe my controller was faulty. That's when I find the revision D controller and it dawned on me that the 5V Bosch plugs were incorrect. I purchased the 7V plugs, and a new revision D controller for good measure (unknown if it was actually bad). No problems at all since.

I suppose I'm partially to blame for bad diagnosis not checking the GP controller or software revision before swapping plugs, but I blame the dealer for having the wrong plugs installed in the first place. The only two things I've ever had done at the dealer were the GP recall (which I assume was done right), and an engine swap a few years later on insurance claim (wish I just did it myself). I believe they forgot to swap plugs between the two engines and that's now I got into this mess.

When I had the ECU tuned , Jeff verified they were 5V plugs and said he will run the latest flash that is 7V
My understanding is the DC is not steady but it cycles high to 7V and back to 0 .
Basically the plugs are "pulsed" on and off which is easier on them than continuous heating