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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal

Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:56   #61
DSL HED
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And they would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those medding WVU kids!

Would the 23o6 campaign be related to this? I still haven't had that done and am in no rush to get it done since it would involve a dealer visit. Maybe I will continue to wait although I read that the DSG shudder at low speeds is improved after that update.

Either way, VW(oA) seems to be in pretty big trouble. They really are their own worst enemy.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:58   #62
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I wonder how this will effect my straight pipe, egr/dpf delete?

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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:01   #63
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I mentioned in a PM that I am curious to see how deep this rabbit hole goes. However, at this point we have one-side of the story. Therefore, and although I am very concerned what this will do to the future of these awesome vehicles, I am anxious to hear details from VW, and will withhold judgement until then.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:01   #64
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One other thing... we all just took a hit on the value of our TDIs.
How much? more than the reality of the consequences, I am sure.
But no doubt, we just lost $1000 trade-in value, and maybe something similar in sale by owner events.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:02   #65
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This is not good, I was trading my Last VW in the household off for a 2016 Volt, now a 2017 Volt since I live in Texas.

Hopefully residuals won't take too big a hit till then.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:02   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cevans View Post
Re: the dyno testing.

EPA does emissions compliance and efficiency ratings on a dyno. Regardless of the state inspection procedure, VWs had a switch that fooled the EPA test.
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Originally Posted by evoblade View Post
Maybe if there was a device detected plugged into the OBD2 port. When I was in Indiana, our "emissions" test consisted of plugging a computer into the OBD2 port. I assume it was checking for emissions related error codes. There were no tailpipe checks.
This wouldn't have affected a state inspection, this would've only affected EPA certification tests. Per the EPA letter:

Quote:
Each VW vehicle identified by the table below has AECDs that were not described in the application for the COC that purportedly covers the vehicle. Specifically, VW manufactured and installed software in the electronic control module (ECM) of these vehicles that sensed when the vehicle was being tested for compliance with EPA emission standards. For ease of reference, the EPA is calling this the "switch." The "switch" senses whether the vehicle is being tested or not based on various inputs including the position of the steering wheel, vehicle speed, the duration of the engine's operation, and barometric pressure. These inputs precisely track the parameters of the federal test procedure used for emissions testing for EPA certification purposes. During EPA emission testing, the vehicles' ECM ran software which produced compliant emission results under an ECM calibration that VW referred to as the "dyno calibration" (referring to the equipment used in emissions testing, called a dynamometer). At all other times during normal vehicle operation, the "switch" was activated and the vehicle ECM software ran a separate "road calibration" which reduced the effectiveness of the emission control system (specifically the selective catalytic reduction or the lean NOx trap). As a result, emissions of NOx increased by a factor of 10 to 40 times above the EPA compliant levels, depending on type of drive cycle (e.g., city, highway).
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:03   #67
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Quote:
The switch (ecm software) senses whether the vehicle is being tested or not based on varoius inputs including the position of the sterring wheel, vehicle speed, the duration of the engine's operatoin, and barometric pressure. These inputs precisely track the parameters of the federal test procedure used for emission testing for EPA certification purposes. During EPA emission testing, the vehicles' ECM ran software which produced compliant emission results under an ECM calibration that VW referred to as the "dyno calibration" (referring to the equipment used in emissions testing, called a dynamometer). At all other times during normal vehicle operation, the "switch" was activated and the vehicle ECM software ran a separate "raod calibration" which reduced the effectiveness of the emission control system (specifically the selective catalytic reduction or the lean NOx trap). As a result, emissions of NOx increased by a factor of 10 to 40 times above the EPA compliant levels, depending on the type of drive cycle (city, highway)
from the epa letter
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:04   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by road hog View Post
I wonder how this will effect my straight pipe, egr/dpf delete?

Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk
No affect at all.....
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:06   #69
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Originally Posted by phlfly View Post
Well I'm not embarrassing as VW , I'm embarrassing for this administration trying to increase cost to consumer!
I can't wait a day when Obama gone for the office and his stupid cabinet. These guys made more damage around the world than Bush with stupid wars. I'm sicking of him everyday more and more. EPA is Obama's instrument to kill private sector production.
This is your one and only warning. Anyone who attempts to turn this thread into a political debate will get banned for a month!
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:07   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubStrom View Post
One other thing... we all just took a hit on the value of our TDIs.
How much? more than the reality of the consequences, I am sure.
But no doubt, we just lost $1000 trade-in value, and maybe something similar in sale by owner events.
Or its a great time to buy a used one.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:14   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlfly View Post
read this story http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/bu...ware.html?_r=0

I like this :

"Analysts said it was meant to send a clear message to automakers that they will be harshly treated for compromising federal rules."

They want to make it clear that they’re going to crack down on cheaters,” said Frank O’Donnell, president of the environmental advocacy group Clean Air Watch. “They’re cheating not only car buyers but the breathing public. They want to lay down the law, enforce the law, and show they’re not going to tolerate cheaters. The laws and regulation are only as good as the enforcement.”

Really, how about recreational marijuana, is Colorado state cheating on Federal regulation for using "drugs" ?
Double standards?
Oh, they care what we are breathing? Really, but don't care what our children is inhale drugs?

WOW, liberal bias!!!
I would think a tobacco smoking driver of a new vehicle emits more pollution than the vehicle itself. I lump marijuana and alcohol in same category - they both drugs and have similar effects.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:14   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by learningneverends View Post
Or its a great time to buy a used one.

Hold onto those VEs and PDs!
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:15   #73
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Two sides to this story I'm sure... EPA has had the biggest hard-on for keeping light duty diesels fleet percentages low. Nearly unattainable federal NOX limits on certification ( much more stringent than the EU ones for NOX ) being the biggest hurdle, which is why TDI's prior to 2006 were so freaking rare... VW couldn't sell them in any quantity per EPA regulations, fleet percentages and all that craziness. The long time club members and early TDI owners know this all too well.

Remember that EPA is a government agency that doesn't necessarily represent their constituents so much as cater to their buddies: domestic automakers, the oil/gas industry and other folks with big wallets. Punches have been thrown back and forth, this is EPA using the high-ground, "you cheated", argument to gain public backing amongst other gains.

Having said this. it wouldn't surprise me a bit if VW actually did somehow "cheat", as I'm sure every other manufacturer has done as well, this is BIG business people, when I think of the word corruption. This, even if true, pales in comparison to SO many in-our-face examples, big banks, big-pharma, Halliburton war machine, fracking, etc. The fact that EPA didn't find cheating on some domestic high-volume gas powered pile of bolts first just proves my point. You know where they want to throw their punches and it's not at their friends, they're getting pushed into the ring by whomever is funding the big fight. Folks who are simply pushing monopoly pieces around.

The TDI CR diesels are insanely clean, the folks who actually own and drive them can all nod their heads in agreement. If everyone drove them solely, I'm willing to bet, bad air days would drop like a rock across the board and "non-attainment" areas would dissolve. I don't have data to back that up, I speculate. But I DO know what I'm talking about and worked 10 years as a professional in the emissions testing industry.

Before everyone goes and badmouths VW and throws them under the bus, I think it's smart to look at both sides first and put yourself in both sets of shoes to best understand how these things happen the way they do. It's like prohibition, people are gonna drink, if the powers that be say no you can not, well, then folks find ways around that ridiculousness.

This particular punch in this long drawn out brawl isn't an efficient campaign to combat climate change and pollution in my personal opinion, TDI's are some of the best examples of vehicles reaching for the aggressive EPA mileage and CO2 targets looming.

IDK, just my $.02, carry on...
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:17   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by learningneverends View Post
Or its a great time to buy a used one.
If you are interested, I have just put my 2014 Passat SE TDI with 15K miles up for sale...make me an offer. BTW, it gets better MPG than the EPA ratings.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:18   #75
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Well said jolly.
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