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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal

Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:16   #31
Farfromovin
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Oh man, this is big news! I've been a TDI owner for about 10 years now and just bought an Ecodiesel Jeep. After buying the Jeep I saw a lot of people online plagued with SCR and DEF injector issues. Jeep has done remap after remap, has 3 variations of SCR, and are now finally getting things stable. I was proud of how well the TDI's were doing in this regard but depending on how much bypassing is done by the software, that is a game changer.
Either way, I hope this is as simple as a reflash for those affected and hopefully those who are tuned can get a free or close to free remap again after the TDI is "fixed" in their database.


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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:16   #32
compu_85
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And now we know why so many people were getting letters asking CARB to emissions re-test their cars...

-J
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Maybe I should pay MYSELF to do bad work on my car!
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:19   #33
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DO NOT GET THE RECALL

When you advance the timing or add excess air you get higher cylinder pressures, more heat, more efficiency, less soot and more NOx. Conversely, when you retard the timing or run richer mixtures you result in lower peak pressures, lower efficiency, more soot and less NOx.
What does this mean to you? Reading the recall, the violation is for excess NOx. This means that any fix performed will result in less efficiency and more regeneration cycles. It will also increase the amount of soot in the high pressure EGR.

Unless you believe that NOx is more important than fuel consumption and CO2 this recall will only hurt you.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:19   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
And now we know why so many people were getting letters asking CARB to emissions re-test their cars...

-J
Yep. I guess this is what that was all about.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:20   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDubTDI View Post
...

Interestingly, 2012 and 2013 Passats are not included, but 2014 Passats and ALL 2015 model year vehicles (which include urea/SCR). Very strange.
Related to turbo failures?
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3209/vw...012_-_2013.pdf

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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:21   #36
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Originally Posted by DeliveryValve View Post
In California, they do not do a dyno test in diesels. Just a OBD2 diagnostic scan and snap test (accelerator exhaust smoke test).
It has to be a programming flag when the OBD2 scan is initiated.


.

I wondered about this is as well - so for those of us with a ScanGuage or a Bluetooth OBD2 scanner hooked up constantly, wouldn't the car always think it's in test mode?

This is my scenario and actually might explain why I've always had difficulty getting much better that 38mpg in city driving when the rest of you are getting 42+.

Could be very interesting indeed.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:21   #37
compu_85
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Also, Caterpillar tried the same thing in the late 90s. And lost:

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...2566a60069ad2e

-J
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Past:
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Originally Posted by BRUSSELS BELGIAN View Post
Maybe I should pay MYSELF to do bad work on my car!
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:22   #38
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Some states require that you get recalls to maintain registration, though.

I'd say get the recall, then get a mild tune from a tuning vendor not based in the US.

And, as most states use OBD-II and maybe smoke opacity for the entire emissions test, they'd never have a reason to come across this. I'd guess that VeeDubTDI's assertion that it's based on dyno detection is the way it's using to circumvent this.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:25   #39
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As a member of the Engineering community I am embarrassed by this. The Engineers certainly had to design this software and one would think it raised ethical questions. Are the Emissions rules more relaxed in Europe? How did these people justify the cheating in their mind so that they felt ok with it?

for other things related to the Earth the Europeans seem to be relatively progressive. My point is that I just wonder what was on the minds of the Engineers that put this system in place.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:25   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
Also, Caterpillar tried the same thing in the late 90s. And lost:

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...2566a60069ad2e

-J
Allot more than just Cat:

Quote:
Caterpillar Inc., Cummins Engine Company, Detroit Diesel Corporation, Mack Trucks, Inc., Navistar International Transportation Corporation, Renault Vehicules Industriels, s.a. and Volvo Truck Corporation
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:26   #41
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If you have your car serviced at the dealer like I do, you can't avoid the 'update'. My car is fairly new and I have a service package, plus I don't trust anyone else to know what the proper oil to use, etc. Even in non-CARB states, dealer's will be instructed NOT to let cars leave without applying the update, even if you take in for just an oil change or other warranty work. This violation, if true, is very serious - can't wait to see the fine issued to VW by the EPA. Also wonder if VW will come up with any incentives to owners too. Curious that the 2015 Passat TDI is affected with the new TDI motor vs the 2014's, and why the 2012's and 2013's are not affected?
... and then come the crowd with their hands out wondering if they can shake a nickel loose
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:27   #42
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Originally Posted by VeeDubTDI View Post
The potential fines are maximum penalties. The real fines will likely be substantially less.
We'll have to wait and see what comes out of this from VW. The big problem for VW is if they're guilty of a 'willful' act of wrongdoing, not that Hyundai, Kia, and Ford didn't do anything wrong either with their mileage inaccuracies either. They probably could get the original mileage quoted on their test tracks under very controlled conditions, just not in the real world we live, re: "your mileage may vary". You can't state the amount of pollution "will vary" depending on your driving habits, it either functions properly or not. This violation is very different because pollution controls are supposed to take the human quotient out of the picture, where we can't change how much emissions are put out of an engine, assuming no special tunes or modification were made.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:28   #43
validius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk3 View Post
As a member of the Engineering community I am embarrassed by this. The Engineers certainly had to design this software and one would think it raised ethical questions. Are the Emissions rules more relaxed in Europe? How did these people justify the cheating in their mind so that they felt ok with it?
for other things related to the Earth the Europeans seem to be relatively progressive. My point is that I just wonder what was on the minds of the Engineers that put this system in place.
It is a decisions that blur the line between ethics and morals.

Depending on your view of environmental issues, this form of cycle beating could be called morally superior. Less fuel consumed and less soot.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:30   #44
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Originally Posted by T-Roy View Post
Here is the letter from EPA to VW...

It shows in the chart on page 5 all 2.0L TDI's being part of this, including the 2012 and 2013 Passats.

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/docume...a-09-18-15.pdf

The Detroit Free Press article quotes all these models affected:

Affected diesel models include:
  • Jetta (model years 2009 – 2015)
  • Beetle (model years 2009 – 2015)
  • Audi A3 (model years 2009 – 2015)
  • Golf (model years 2009 – 2015)
  • Passat (model years 2014-2015)
So VW has been knowingly doing this for years without any attempt to fix or resolve the core issue. That's right, no better than GM or any of the others, kicking the can down the road to the next generation engine and the next exec in charge, when they promise to "finally" resolve the issue and get it right. I have such disdain now for auto execs and even less for the engineers who are complicit in crap like this instead of being a whistle blower.

Last edited by JimNap; September 18th, 2015 at 10:33.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:32   #45
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Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
Also, Caterpillar tried the same thing in the late 90s. And lost:

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...2566a60069ad2e

-J
And then in 2010, Caterpillar exited the Highway Truck Business among other things as it was too expensive to comply.
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