New Battery Testing Tool - MUST HAVE!!!

We all know about how to test batteries:

Volt/Ohm Meter = Read about 12.5-12.6 volts total, fully charged
Hydrometer = specific gravity of electrolyte in the green range
Load Check = Puts dummy load on battery, read volts, see if it recovers....

These test can show OK or GOOD yet the battery can be weak & dying....
Now enter the "conductance" or capacitance tester....more comprehensive,
definitive and easy to use.

This one shows how battery passes all test but the last with a newer tool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi8sUE9XCgA

This one shows the Harbor Freight one, which you can buy for about $50.
The going rate is about $50 to $80 for entry level battery analyzer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtWflJTp_mM

Good info. Very interesting.

Dear Santa....

H.

As far as I can tell from the video, it will not work with VW OEM batteries. The tester requires you to enter CCA or CA of the battery being tested. VW OEM batteries are not rated in either CCA or CA.

A tried and true method for me has been to put my old dinosaur charger on a dead battery and watch the charging meter. Overnight, the meter will show about 1/2 an amp still charging on a good battery and about 3 to 4 amps still charging on a dying battery.

After that I will get out the volt meter to so I can do a couple of checks to rule out the alternator.

http://www.cloreautomotive.com/sku.php?id=308

I have one of these. You can see the owners manual and other literature at the link above.

http://www.amazon.com/BA7-100-1200-Electronic-Battery-System/dp/B0015PI7A4

the best use is to track a specific battery, and chart performance over time.

the CCA values will register just fine, you just enter a value if you want it to pass judgement on your result.



the one i have is pretty nice, in that it also will record the minimum voltage during a starting event.


on my oem factory battery,

I measured CCA a couple years ago.

Oct 2012 757 CCA
Aug 7, 2013 702 CCA
Sept 9, 2013 636 CCA
Sept 14, 2013 555 CCA

then it died. (that night)

replacement measured 900 CCA

meerschm said:

http://www.cloreautomotive.com/sku.php?id=308

I have one of these. You can see the owners manual and other literature at the link above.

http://www.amazon.com/BA7-100-1200-Electronic-Battery-System/dp/B0015PI7A4

the best use is to track a specific battery, and chart performance over time.

the CCA values will register just fine, you just enter a value if you want it to pass judgement on your result.



the one i have is pretty nice, in that it also will record the minimum voltage during a starting event.


on my oem factory battery,

I measured CCA a couple years ago.

Oct 2012 757 CCA
Aug 7, 2013 702 CCA
Sept 9, 2013 636 CCA
Sept 14, 2013 555 CCA

then it died. (that night)

replacement measured 900 CCA

Click to expand...

DING! DING! DING!!! We have a winner. Looks like the BA7 does have the capability of using a DIN(European or German) rating for testing and as a plus will help diagnose alternator charging and starter problems.

Not having to wait for the battery to be fully charged to test it is certainly a plus.

which means my oem battery lasted right around five years. hundred degree summer traffic to fifteen below cold starts on ski trips.

Ol'Rattler said:

As far as I can tell from the video, it will not work with VW OEM batteries. The tester requires you to enter CCA or CA of the battery being tested. VW OEM batteries are not rated in either CCA or CA.

Click to expand...

Just to clarify, however, the OEM batteries do have a DIN or EN rating... it's stamped on the label next to the Ah rating... and this tester will do DIN/EN as well.

There are a couple versions of this tool... I have the BA7 version which tests the alternator as well. Fairly slick in that it measures the battery and then has you start the car to measure the charging system....30 seconds and you're got a comprehensive understanding of the electrical system. Obviously it's doing some extrapolation, for example, if the battery is not at -18F it's not really measuring CCA as defined by the SAE, but it does make very quick work of sizing up electrical system issues in a hurry.

And, as previously posted, like a lot of gauges the real value would be to chart your battery's capacity over time and get in front of being stranded one winter.

Vince Waldon said:

Just to clarify, however, the OEM batteries do have a DIN or EN rating... it's stamped on the label next to the Ah rating... and this tester will do DIN/EN as well.

Click to expand...

Well ya, that was my point. The BA7 has a set point that corresponds with the DIN rating on VW OEM batteries.

Ol'Rattler said:

\Well ya, that was my point. The BA7 has a set point that corresponds with
the DIN rating on VW OEM batteries.

Click to expand...

I think the OEM was (EN) 540 which is SAE/CAA 600 CCA.....

I just ordered a Solar BA7 from eee-Pay for $69 delivered no tax.

It is going to be a quantum leap for my battery electrical diagnosis abilities,
since I only owned some pretty awesome volt ohm meters, no load meter
no hydrometer....

These analyzers measure "conductance" of the plates. As the battery ages
the conductance changes as the plates get sulfated. This is were the other
measurement tools of battery health can't really detect directly.

Q: What is conductance?
A: Conductance describes the ability of a battery to conduct current.
In scientific terms, it is the real part of the complex admittance. Various test
data have shown that at low frequencies, the conductance of a battery is
an indicator of battery state-of-health showing a linear correlation to a
battery’s timed-discharge capacity test result. Trending this measurement
can be used as a reliable predictor of battery end-of-life.

I guess you can't have to many tools but for ten bucks you can have this.. http://www.amazon.com/HappyPrimeDay...&keywords=cigarette+lighter+digital+voltmeter

If the car shows 13.5v while it's running the alternator works. Overnight, you'll get used to seeing 12.5v or so. If it starts to creep lower over time it's time for a new battery. I bought three or four and put them in all the cars. Others on Amazon are available for even less.

Just a volt meter. Hard to tell from voltage alone what the condition of a battery is. Could a low overnight voltage be caused by state of charge at shutdown(short trips), changes in weather or parasitic drain?

Here's all the Solar models, and near as I can find, they are made by Clore Automotive

http://www.cloreautomotive.com/category.php?id=94

.

Ol'Rattler said:

Just a volt meter. Hard to tell from voltage alone what the condition of a battery is. Could a low overnight voltage be caused by state of charge at shutdown(short trips), changes in weather or parasitic drain?

Click to expand...

Certainly that's true but that's all you need. I'm not saying you should run to the dealer the first time the voltage is low in the morning. Mostly it's a CHEAP long term trend monitoring device. For me, as often as I would use the new tool mentioned above, I probably wouldn't be able to find it.

I got the tester and used it. Great.

BATTERY CONDITION - CCA test is easy, quick and accurate. You read
voltage as soon as you connect tester to battery. You select batt test, enter
type of battery, and rated CAA on battery. Once you enter CAA, push enter,
you get digital CAA read out of battery and pass fail LED lights.
-Green = Good,
-Red = Bad
-Green/Yellow = Good/Low Volts-Charge.
(You must know battery CCA rating, will accept SAE CCA or DIN/EN units.)

START TEST - It takes more button pushing, to select the test. You get in
car, start car. You get LED lights (green pass/yellow weak/red fail) LED
and the MIN VOLTAGE during start. I think mine was 8.9 Volts.

CHARGE TEST WITH NO LOAD - It is easy, but the button pushing is not
totally intuitive, takes reading of manual. I made a cheat sheet and taped
on back. If you used it all the time it will be easy, but there is a sequence
of button pushing that takes some practice. You have to run RPM up to
1200 to 1500 RPM and push button on tester. The leads are short so it's
hard to do solo. I was able to put tester on window and reach out window
and push enter button. For all practical purposes charge test takes two people....
You get the LED pass fail lights (green good, yellow low, red high) and the
charging voltage.

CHARGE TEST WITH LOAD - Turn on headlights with hi-beam, fog lights,
blower, defroster, radio, foot on brake.... no further button pushing, but
the tester flash and give you new pass fail LED and volts.

Since this tester does not record you should have paper and pen
and record the results... especially CAA. The reason is trends will
be the real tell tale. Over time if you see CAA drop off, start voltage
gets lower, this will tell you if battery is weak and needs replacing.
You may want to try and test battery at the same temperature or at
least note it. I am not sure how much the temp effects the test.

There's a model that prints out the data but it's way more expensive.

http://www.amazon.com/BA327-20-2000-Electronic-Battery-Printer/dp/B0021UOVYS

.

So what were your readings?

meerschm said:

So what were your readings?

Click to expand...

Sir I'm a Gentleman. I don't test and tell. Seriously don't recall exact numbers.
I tested two times. The first time the car was sitting for two days, and battery
voltage was ~12.45 volts. CCA read less than rated, something like 580 CCA
(rated is 615 CCA). I tested again a few days later, after driving it. Voltage
was 12.6 give or take. The CAA was above 615 CCA... Again don't remember
number but it was above say +630 CAA. Both times I got the green light.
The start and charge test were good as I said.

No surprise was expected. I am not suspecting a bad two year old replacement
battery. However this tool will be a great help diagnose a weak battery fast. The
start test and charge tests are just frosting on the cake. It replaces three tools,
volt-meter, load test volts, and hydrometer. By measuring "conductance" and
start volts, charge volts and change in volts pre and post load.... this little hand
help device is awesome, works. I recommend it. The BA5 only does battery test.
For not much more money you can get the BA7. Solar makes and sells fancy
testers with printers.... but this one is good enough for the amateur shade tree
mechanic.

I asked because you will later want to know what the CCA or any other reading was today.

a green light is nice, but the actual reading is a lot more informative over time.

On my "new"battery,

Sept 15, 2013 900CCA
April 10, 2015 1081 CA (was not consistent on what to read)
August 2, 2015 894 CCA 1074 CA

my original battery (installed 08/2008) went south pretty fast after five years in the car.

Oct 27,12 750 CCA
aug 7, 13 702 CCA
Sept 9, 13 636 CCA
Sept 14, 13 555 CCA

would not start the car next morning.

meerschm said:

I asked because you will later want to know what the CCA or any other reading was today. a green light is nice, but the actual reading is a lot more informative over time.

On my "new"battery,

Sept 15, 2013 900CCA
April 10, 2015 1081 CA (was not consistent on what to read)
August 2, 2015 894 CCA 1074 CA

my original battery (installed 08/2008) went south pretty fast after five years in the car.

Oct 27,12 750 CCA
aug 7, 13 702 CCA
Sept 9, 13 636 CCA
Sept 14, 13 555 CCA
would not start the car next morning.

Click to expand...

Thanks good to know.... Thanks.

I'm a little mystified by the need to have such a tool, unless you just like that kind of thing. In 40+ years of driving I've never been stranded by a dead battery and even if I was AAA is only a phone call away. I have a lot of old cars, and they all sit a lot. My Miata (battery age from PO, unknown) sat for three winters from December to April with not so much as a tender, started right up each Spring. I'll throw a charger on my Mercedes occasionally if it sits for more than a month, but it's probably just for my peace of mind. And the first battery on my wagon lasted 8 years, cranked slow in Detroit one morning when I was out there for NAIAS, so I replaced it. Turns out it was -23 that morning. No wonder it cranked slow. A colleague used it for another two years. Just saying.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I'm a little mystified by the need to have such a tool, unless you just like that kind of thing. In 40+ years of driving I've never been stranded by a dead battery and even if I was AAA is only a phone call away. I have a lot of old cars, and they all sit a lot. My Miata (battery age from PO, unknown) sat for three winters from December to April with not so much as a tender, started right up each Spring. I'll throw a charger on my Mercedes occasionally if it sits for more than a month, but it's probably just for my peace of mind. And the first battery on my wagon lasted 8 years, cranked slow in Detroit one morning when I was out there for NAIAS, so I replaced it. Turns out it was -23 that morning. No wonder it cranked slow. A colleague used it for another two years. Just saying.

Click to expand...

Peter, given that our climates aren't all that different, I feel that you might be very lucky. The battery in the 2010 wagon lasted just a shade over 4 years until it gave problems. The battery that was in the (now sold) 350SDL lasted 5 years and spent it's winter on a trickle charge. The battery that came in the SL lasted just under 2 years as the car sat in the winter.

You might be right. Perhaps I'm lucky enough that I don't even think about batteries. It just occurred to me that my Passat has a battery of unknown age (or brand, for that matter, although it's probably an OE Varta). I have no idea when it was last replaced, I've had the car for 3 and a half years, and it often sits for a month or more at a time. And it's started for my son in -10F with no problems. Lucky is nice, I guess.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=401601&highlight=long+battery

and a few other places. batteries do die and need to be replaced

if you have one car you need to be reliable, and keeping track may allow a data-based decision to replace, before it cranks slow or quits (which seems to me to be about ten minutes between slow and quits.) a few years ago the old chevy seemed to crank a little slow, and the next day had to jump in ten inches of snow and ten degrees at the ski hotel up in the mountains in West VA, a few hours later in the sunshine and 40 degrees it started ok and got me home where I replaced it the next day.

I could be just misinformed. but it seems all the cars I ever had needed a battery after 3 years or so. the five years on my Jetta seemed like a gift. My wife's 2003 Honda is on its third battery. I admit my default behavior is to replace rather than horse around trying to diagnose the battery.

I picked up the meter to see if I could test rather than wait for a failure. would be nice to make an informed decision in September rather than play around in January.

Peter, do you pop the top off the battery and top off the fluid with distilled water once in a while? (as has been suggested by more than a few) They seem to go out of the way to hide this access from folks more so than they did a few years ago. perhaps it is just liability, coupled with reduced need for top off due to more sophisticated charging systems (since overcharging boils off the electrolyte)

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I'm a little mystified by the need to have such a tool, unless you just like that kind of thing. In 40+ years of driving I've never been stranded by a dead battery and even if I was AAA is only a phone call away.

Click to expand...

i guess i agree with you. About a month or so ago I took my dog for a walk in the park about 3 miles from home. When i returned to my car (2014 Passat less than 20k miles on it ) zip, zero nothin' my cell phone was on the charger in the kitchen at home. For what it's worth a fellow dog walker tried to jump my car with his V6 Trailblazer to no avail. He took me and my dog home and I called VW Roadside assistance and they arranged for the tow to my dealer. This was on a Sunday evening so the car didn't get looked at until Monday morning......diagnosis was junk battery replace under warranty. All the battery testers in the world would not have prevented that scenario. After my roadside service runs out AAA will be my friend. If you have to check your battery on a weekly basis like when you add fuel there is something definitely wrong with how these car are being built Now on the other hand if you are running a repair service (just like that guy in the video) that would be a very handy tool to add to all the other tools in your arsenal.

meerschm said:

Peter, do you pop the top off the battery and top off the fluid with distilled water once in a while?

Click to expand...

No. Never done that.

I read an article recently that BMW has programmed its cars to charge the batteries only when coasting to improve FE. This means they don't get charged as often or as fully as in the past. And with the advent of more turbocharged BMW engines, fans run longer after shut down to cool hot turbos, resulting in more battery drain. They tried higher capacity batteries, but (according to this article) now replace the battery at each oil change. That's right, every 10K miles. They can't re-program the car to charge the batteries more because it would affect FE, invalidating their EPA certification and risking a class action suit if the cars fail to deliver the advertised FE. Lovely.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

No. Never done that.

but (according to this article) now replace the battery at each oil change. That's right, every 10K miles. They can't re-program the car to charge the batteries more because it would affect FE, invalidating their EPA certification and risking a class action suit if the cars fail to deliver the advertised FE. Lovely.

Click to expand...

I guess BMW feels that if you have the coin for one of their cars replacing the battery at oil change times is just chump change. That really doesn't make me rich enough to own anything they build. I'll stick with VW for a while longer even though they have their warts too.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...710/enginerdy-strange-connections-bmw-n63-v8/

Now that we have diverted from the battery testing tool.

this is one aspect of pushing the envelope.

trying to put fuel-efficiency lipstick on a car with a twin turbo V8. looks like they also had oil issues, added a quart to the sump and reducing change interval from 15k to 10k.

pretty much trying to have the cake, eat it, keep it for the grandkids, and have the cake help you loose weight.


but none of this would reduce benefits of battery management which uses the otherwise wasted energy during coasting and braking to save fuel.

seems like it would be a perfect match for start-stop systems.

on the way to find that road and track article, it seems BMW is selling real-time battery monitoring, hooked up to the corporate cloud. wonder if just they watch voltage, or if they also run periodic conductance tests on the batteries.

gmcjetpilot said:

These test can show OK or GOOD yet the battery can be weak & dying....
Now enter the "conductance" or capacitance tester....more comprehensive,
definitive and easy to use.

Click to expand...

We had one (a PulseTech 490 PT) in our labs and they are quick but not very informative and many times, dead wrong.

A true test of a battery is done with a load tester and something like a Progamma Torkel 860 to measure the capacity which is time consuming. No shop would use one or could afford one other than a battery testing facility.

Spent my $ on two of these. Can't beat them. The 2k Golf got 10 years out of the OEM Varta battery using one of these. A little fluid maintenance and 3-day sessions every month or so and good to go the long haul. It left money in my pocket and enough to buy a new battery when it did finally die.

http://www.batteryminders.com/12-volt-maintenance-charger-desfulator-with-warranty

993er said:

We had one (a PulseTech 490 PT) in our labs and they are quick but not very informative and many times, dead wrong.

A true test of a battery is done with a load tester and something like a Progamma Torkel 860 to measure the capacity which is time consuming. No shop would use one or could afford one other than a battery testing facility.

Click to expand...

Did you see the video in #1 post of this thread? This one shows how battery
passes all test with typical tests, but this tool shows it to be at about 60% capacity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi8sUE9XCgA


Not sure about "Progamma Torkel 850", but I looked it up. It is a big
expensive bench tester. Fluke makes a small handheld battery tester
for $3,500. Let's get real. The fact is how good do you need to test a
battery? If it is marginal, just replace the battery. Or if you want just
replace it by calendar proactively. It seems that modern batteries are
made lighter and tend to just have cells short out-O-blue. The only
guard is buy top brand batteries, maybe AGM...

We are testing 1859 technology, and the charge system may be an issue.

Also the battery has to work with the charge system.... I agree that
these little testers are NOT the be all end all, nor compete with $3500
bench testers. However for a car, it is good enough. If you had a fleet
of batteries to maintain, you would want one of those PRO tools.

"old school" "LOAD Testers" are just a volt meter. They have inductive
load of about 100 AMPS and suck off the surface charge; you leave it
on and see if it sucks down volts and then recovers.... The other tests
just volt meters or hydrometers don't give full picture.

These "cheap" devices like Solar BA5/BA7 measure internal resistance and
"conductance", how well the electrons are moving on and off the plates. Also
it does a start test & gives instantaneous Min voltage. Charge test is basic.
There is no current measurement, but for a SMALL handheld device about $70,
it's good for individuals.

As far as giving a false good indication on a bad battery, I don't think so.
What others have said is taking measurements over time and looking for
trend is a good way to go. Also calendar... 3-7 years. Just proactively
replace it and don't bother testing. Again some batteries go from 100%
to dead and commit suicide with internal shorts....

BTW I tested to batteries in the parking lot with co-workers. One a brand
new RAM TRUCK... It had 12.73 volts and tested above rated CAA. The
other was a two year old replacement battery in a Porsche, it also tested good.
The Porsche Boxer has the battery in a cool compartment in the front boot.
Avoiding extreme temps,, high or low is a big plus.