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Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc) Discussions about alternative fuels for use in our TDI's. This includes biodiesel WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil), SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil), BTL (Biomass to Liquid), GTL (Gas to Liquids) etc. Please note the Fuel Disclaimer.

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Old February 14th, 2015, 13:57   #1
SFHGolfTDI
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Default Next generation renewable diesel now available in NorCal?

User Sangretdi just brought to my attention that Propel Fuels, a CA-based retailer of alternative fuels with a very cool business model (rents space/pumps at petroleum fueling stations), has just released a product called "Diesel HPR" in place of their B20 in Northern California. http://www.dieselhpr.com/

It exceeds ASTM D975 petroleum diesel specs and is safe for all diesel engines, including the newest. It also has a claimed 40% higher cetane and far lower emissions (40-90%) than either biodiesel or petrodiesel.

If anyone has more info, has tried it, etc., I'd love to hear some feedback. How does the price compare?
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Old February 14th, 2015, 14:09   #2
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It's puzzling that they claim it's made from waste animal oils, but is not Biodiesel. I thought the definition of BD was simply diesel fuel made from non-petroleum sources. That makes this by definition Biodiesel.

Of course, I can understand them not wanting to muddle up people's thoughts that it could have the same issues that BD has with the latest diesel engines. In that respect it is far to call it something different, but in the end it's still BD. I too would be curious to hear from anyone that has used it. Of course, there's none available in my area, so we will have to see how it goes.

I'm also curious as to retail price, and the viability of high volume production.
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Old February 14th, 2015, 14:13   #3
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I've bought their B20 a few times when in CA. Curious to see how this is manufactured. Looks like its made from the same materials as biodiesel.
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Old February 14th, 2015, 14:16   #4
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Actually, biodiesel has a specific definition, based on the process used to make it from the base stock. This is indeed not biodiesel. Just like WVO or SVO are not biodiesel. These new fuels have mostly been labeled "renewable" diesel (see pg. 15 here):
In general, alternative diesel fuels are a category of motor vehicle fuels that are not conventional diesel and do not solely consist of hydrocarbons. While there are a few alternative diesel fuels in existence today, biodiesel is by far the most prevalent. While renewable diesel is also an innovative diesel fuel replacement, it consists solely of hydrocarbons and is virtually indistinguishable from conventional diesel; therefore,renewable diesel is not considered an alternative diesel fuel under this proposed regulation.
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Originally Posted by atc98002 View Post
It's puzzling that they claim it's made from waste animal oils, but is not Biodiesel. I thought the definition of BD was simply diesel fuel made from non-petroleum sources. That makes this by definition Biodiesel.

Of course, I can understand them not wanting to muddle up people's thoughts that it could have the same issues that BD has with the latest diesel engines. In that respect it is far to call it something different, but in the end it's still BD. I too would be curious to hear from anyone that has used it. Of course, there's none available in my area, so we will have to see how it goes.

I'm also curious as to retail price, and the viability of high volume production.
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Old February 14th, 2015, 14:20   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobt2382 View Post
I've bought their B20 a few times when in CA. Curious to see how this is manufactured. Looks like its made from the same materials as biodiesel.
Yes, you're right. Made from same feedstocks as biodiesel. But compatible with all diesel vehicles and superior to both petro and biodiesel. That's pretty cool. I would love to try this.
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Old February 14th, 2015, 14:23   #6
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Thanks for the info! I will look for this the next time I'm out on the west coast with my TDI.
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Old February 14th, 2015, 19:14   #7
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Found more info from some who have used it here. This stuff sounds amazing: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...biodiesel.html
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Old February 14th, 2015, 19:49   #8
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i filled up my tank with the HPR this a.m. and going to see how the car responds. price was about $1 cheaper a gal than what i normally pay for b99. reading the vague online information i thought the same thing, it sounds like bio diesel made from fish and poultry guts. just had my IP resealed so wondering how this stuff reacts to the viton seals, etc...
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Old February 14th, 2015, 20:04   #9
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Sangretdi, you shouldn't have anything to worry about if you just had your IP resealed with viton. I'd prefer if the stuff wasn't made from animal feedstocks (industrial ag is its own can of worms), but it beats petroleum. In my reading, this stuff has cetane of 80-90% in some cases

Added benefits: No problems in cold temps, etc. I also heard it is clear in color and less stinky. But when I did a quick comparison, at least according to the National Biodiesel Board, emissions still seem better on FAME biodiesel (the old stuff); see here and here.

It just seems so strange that Propel rolled this out so widely in NorCal but very quietly. I couldn't find a press release or anything.

Keep us posted, especially if you notice difference in fuel economy, power or any other changes.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 16:01   #10
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Just ran into this when filling up at my usual Propel station. I'm kind of disappointed that this has less lubricity than BD, but I'm glad that I no longer have to worry about BD in the engine oil because of the DPF cycles. I will probably fill up my CR with this, but now I need to see if there is a convenient place with BD for my PD. And I'll need to research a lubricity additive for my HPFP...

Not much impressions yet on the first 20 miles with 50% HPR, 40% D2, and 10% BD. I rarely drive this car, so I'll fill my PD up this week and report back on my experiences. I want to say the engine felt smoother, but it is probably because this is the first time I've driven my CR in a month, and the PD is definitely rougher
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Old February 15th, 2015, 16:08   #11
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SFH, thanks for the clarification. I was under the assumption that the general category of BD lumped all waste oil conversion processes (not untreated waste or virgin oil) under that label. Seems fair to differentiate between them. Especially since this particular product is a drop-in replacement for petro-diesel.

Still wondering about the ability of this product to be manufactured in any respectable quantities. It sounds like the fuel we are all waiting for, but it has to be more available than one particular neighborhood.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 20:36   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odilatinam View Post
Just ran into this when filling up at my usual Propel station. I'm kind of disappointed that this has less lubricity than BD, but I'm glad that I no longer have to worry about BD in the engine oil because of the DPF cycles. I will probably fill up my CR with this, but now I need to see if there is a convenient place with BD for my PD. And I'll need to research a lubricity additive for my HPFP...

Not much impressions yet on the first 20 miles with 50% HPR, 40% D2, and 10% BD. I rarely drive this car, so I'll fill my PD up this week and report back on my experiences. I want to say the engine felt smoother, but it is probably because this is the first time I've driven my CR in a month, and the PD is definitely rougher
I think I read somewhere else that it is 98% HPR because the rest is additives. Something to look into.
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Old February 17th, 2015, 11:16   #13
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Rad. There is a station around the corner from my office. I am definitely going to try this blend, I was not looking forward to the next 50K miles back on dino in the new Golf. Stoked!
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Old February 20th, 2015, 10:41   #14
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Just stopped at my usual Propel station and found this Diesel HPR instead of the B20 I had been using. The pump stickers read 98 percent biomass based and contains no biodiesel. It was cheaper than regular diesel at the same station. I noticed it was quicker and easier to top up than B20 since it didn't foam as much. I only drove 8 miles since filling so far. The tank was less than a quarter full with B20 before stopping at the station. So far seems smooth driving but will see how it goes. I had not heard of it before stopping at the station so that is how I ended up here to see what is up.
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Old February 21st, 2015, 17:58   #15
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I filled up my 98 Jetta with it. I wonder who is behind the change? Is it big oil trying to gain control of the alternative fuel scene or is it just a new/different type fuel? That is one of the reasons I liked supporting the "home brewer", get away from big oil and their evil ways.
I also wonder about lubricity. Its supposed to be as good as ULSD? We know that basically has the lubricity of sand paper. I usually use Stanadyne in each tank and its supposed to up the lube characteristics.
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