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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old October 18th, 2014, 19:09   #1
[486]
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TDI(s): 02 golf ALH
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Default slow, dumb, cheap compound setup!

So.
Got a TD04 from a guy at work he took off his sewbrew in search of more power. One look at it and the idea got in my brain. "Hey, that thing's bigger'n mine." So I bought it from him for fifty dollars.

Went back to the land of hack-fabbery after some measurements hastily scribbled on some printer paper and came back with this marvel of modern engineering.








As an aside, here's a picture showing on another forum the tool lifter I set up for my metal shaper, while cutting the flanges on this flat. It is a piece of serpentine belt.


Well, and then I forgot to take pictures for the rest.

So it's in there with the wastegate set to 3 PSI and some radiator hoses to corral the boost it makes into the VNT-15.
I also adjusted the vane lever travel stop a little tighter, so that the EMP only spikes to 40 PSI rather than 80 when I get on it in second gear. It doesn't do the jet engine idle noise quite as bad after adjusting that stop, either. Response isn't so violent, too, so the wee little 15 should be a little happier.

Now onto the results from the TD04. It's on there and all, wastegate seems to be set for 3 PSI max, when cruising at 50-75 it sits at 2 PSI interstage boost, so it is taking some load off of the 15.

So far it seems that IMP comes up pretty quickly to right around 20 PSI and stays there until I hit the fueling reduction to stock levels I've got at 4.5k RPM (stock ALH pistons and rods on a 140k mile old bottom end that spent all its life in 5w30 conventional oil)

So far no CEL from the 3 PSI being fed into the VNT15, we'll see if that remains the case once I've got a heavier bottom end in it to deal with some more fuel.

All I did was raised the boost limit map (boost limit/atmospheric) to 2300 at .9bar atm and above, and the SVBL to 2300 mbar. Target map is left more or less alone (I had previously raised the highest values up to something like 2200mbar or something).

As per usual, I'm posting a disjointed badly proofread incomprehensible mess.
Any advice?

Last edited by [486]; October 18th, 2014 at 19:12.
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Old October 18th, 2014, 21:42   #2
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... but why when the VNT-15 will happily provide you with the target boost by itself?
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Old October 18th, 2014, 22:59   #3
[486]
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... but why when the VNT-15 will happily provide you with the target boost by itself?
I distract myself from an otherwise rather empty life by tinkering with machines.
Hah sounds awful when you just out with it, huh?
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Old October 19th, 2014, 00:14   #4
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... but why when the VNT-15 will happily provide you with the target boost by itself?
boost doesn't equal volume.
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Old October 19th, 2014, 07:22   #5
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Originally Posted by [486] View Post
I distract myself from an otherwise rather empty life by tinkering with machines.
Hah sounds awful when you just out with it, huh?
This guy! Story of my life
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Old October 19th, 2014, 09:44   #6
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Very cool
Keep us updated.
Happen to have any pics of how it looks installed?
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Old October 19th, 2014, 10:00   #7
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boost doesn't equal volume.
With the same supporting mods it would.
[486] did you do any before/after runs with the same fuelling, I/C, etc?
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Old October 19th, 2014, 11:27   #8
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With the same supporting mods it would.
[486] did you do any before/after runs with the same fuelling, I/C, etc?
Butt dyno says it is just as fast, can't really say if it is any quicker.

Answers to above, boost does equal volume in this case. Same engine, same RPM, same intake manifold pressure, therefore same airflow.
Exhaust manifold pressure might be lower though. That could affect it a little if I were to tune for it, but it shouldn't do much until then because it is just moving extra air through that isn't being utilized.

Still on the stock fuel system for a manual trans car.
Not planning on changing that until I've got a decent bottom end in the block. I do not want a window in the block. Only parts of the car that I actually care about. Block, head, and to a lesser degree the crank.

I have no idea if pics will end up being taken. As you can tell, my camera sucks balls. Probably end up with it on the hoist on monday anyways, so I'll try and remember to snap some pics then.
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Old October 19th, 2014, 14:24   #9
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Any part number on that TD04?
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Old October 19th, 2014, 17:49   #10
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Any part number on that TD04?
Looks like it was rebuilt and sandblasted at some point, very faint engraving on it and all I could really make out was the TD04
Internal gate, off a 2003-ish wrx


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Old October 20th, 2014, 01:46   #11
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With the same supporting mods it would.
no it doesn't. A gt30 is going to push a different volume at 30 PSI then a gt20

this is why you have to look at the turbo island when you are determining power goal in relation to the displacement of your engine and your RPM range.
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Old October 20th, 2014, 01:49   #12
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You then probably have the TD04L-13T-6cm, a 30lbs/min capable compressor wheel, but in a 1.9TDI compound the turbine is a little small, will be limiting it to about 25lbs/min, about 180-190whp

No wonder you don't feel more power:
1: the TD04L chokes at about 110-120whp with only 3psi
1: you need more fuel!

With the fuelling and map you have now (2200mbar max boost) adjust the TD04L up to 5.0psi, this way both turbos will reach their choking point at the same time instead of one or the other being the limiting factor

If you add more fuel later on, boost levels for each stage should be revised again, to get the full 180-190whp out of it, you probably need an external wastegate on the VNT15 to avvoid boost creep
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'10 VW Passat 1.6TDI Highline - 2.5" DP (DPF/Cat delete), DP built and software by VVT - 145bhp/229ft-lbs
'83 VW Jetta 1.6TTD - Holset HE200WG-5cm + Custom Holset HX30W-12cm compound, 12mm Dieselmeken pump, Rosten rods, girdle, Ported AAZ head with custom valves, valve springs, Ti retainers, camshaft +++ WIP
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Old October 20th, 2014, 06:51   #13
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Its not faster because he is on the stock fuel system.
The setup should work OK up until a point but it needs some tuning work
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Old October 20th, 2014, 07:38   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [486] View Post
I distract myself from an otherwise rather empty life by tinkering with machines.
Hah sounds awful when you just out with it, huh?
I'm a tinkerer from birth (all my toys have been opened, taken apart, and put together; disassembled my father's lawn mower motor piece by piece at 10, put it back together and worked on first pull), so I understand this. Pretty much the best answer for this.

I hope my comment above wasn't taken as an offense to you, as it was intended purely as a question for my curiosity.
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Old October 20th, 2014, 10:39   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcaid View Post
You then probably have the TD04L-13T-6cm, a 30lbs/min capable compressor wheel, but in a 1.9TDI compound the turbine is a little small, will be limiting it to about 25lbs/min, about 180-190whp

No wonder you don't feel more power:
1: the TD04L chokes at about 110-120whp with only 3psi
1: you need more fuel!

With the fuelling and map you have now (2200mbar max boost) adjust the TD04L up to 5.0psi, this way both turbos will reach their choking point at the same time instead of one or the other being the limiting factor

If you add more fuel later on, boost levels for each stage should be revised again, to get the full 180-190whp out of it, you probably need an external wastegate on the VNT15 to avvoid boost creep
I actually just tossed them on on friday after work, fixed the downpipe for less rattles against the steering rack and trans tunnel on saturday, and on sunday I shimmed the dogbone mount bushings with some mudflap rubber.

I'm probably gonna adjust the wastegate tonight along with putting a restrictor in the boost gauge line because it is rattling.

Probably not going to up the fuel any more yet. I've got the smoke map set to 17:1 across all the airflow ranges, and the torque limit map screwed with somewhat. Doesn't quite allow full fueling that is allowed on the smoke map, but I don't want to break my weak pistons/rods and take the block with them. I've heard on here that the ALH pistons are good for something like 120hp before they start getting too hot and cracking, then the rods are good for 170 or something before they buckle. Probably be next summer before I get too far into the engine, then I can drive the truck while it's apart. It does not fare well in the snow being DRW and 2wd. Nice rust free cab on it too...

I've planned on an external gate bolted on the EGR flange for a while, another reason I haven't upped the boost much, I don't think the VNT will be able to control itself around 4000 RPM. It'll be making boost with the vanes full open acting like a non gated fixed geometry turbo, then when the computer starts seeing 25 or whatever PSI I get to have limp mode, so I hear.

The turbine might be small, but the wastegate looks like it'll flow pretty well. Or is the turbine just not big enough to drive the compressor to its full potential?
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Originally Posted by Enabled View Post
I hope my comment above wasn't taken as an offense to you, as it was intended purely as a question for my curiosity.
Don't worry, it is very hard to offend me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughesjasonk View Post
no it doesn't. A gt30 is going to push a different volume at 30 PSI then a gt20

this is why you have to look at the turbo island when you are determining power goal in relation to the displacement of your engine and your RPM range.
But the engine does not consume any more air as it is running the same RPMs and boost.

Yeah, I've done the calcs in depth for turbo sizing, at three different IATs, two different ambient temperatures, three different RPM ranges, and three different boost levels. Took three pages of paper and a lot of brain to figure out that my 7.3 wants a GT3582r or an hx35, just like everyone says it does.

This time I just said "**** it, looks a little bigger and not too big, I'll try it".
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Originally Posted by JFettig View Post
Its not faster because he is on the stock fuel system.
The setup should work OK up until a point but it needs some tuning work
Agreed, it's just tossed on there to get it driving again. It is my daily driver, after all.

Last edited by [486]; October 20th, 2014 at 10:41.
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