HHO-Hydrogen-electrolysis-Browns gas Nay sayers need not read

To A L L the HHO-Hydrogen-electrolysis-Browns gas skeptics, non-believers, naysayers, and just out right haters
http://youtu.be/Wb2EYQ7at4c
www.dynacert.com
ARGUE THIS: Pepsi saved 15% in fuel costs. or 3.3 Million dollars. . . . . . . ... . ... what do you have to say now? here is a place for you ; - ) _____________ hmm? what was that? did you say I'm sorry? Discussion - over.
The new discussion you will ask "How do I get one?" I bet they will sell to the end user sooner or later. But if I can do it, so can you. Big oil or the
guv-ment sure is not going to help you. this is my first shot at it.
http://youtu.be/tvk2UomI5VE
Ask and it shall be given you
Seek and ye shall find
Knock and it shall be opened unto you.

There is nothing to discuss. it works.
(great pic)

rwehuman said:

There is nothing to discuss. it works.
(great pic)

Click to expand...

facepalm......

Sew.......thats another good pic.

Do you understand the definition of 'BANNED SUBJECT' ?

Do you know what a banstick is? Would you recognize it if it hit you?

Bill

I'm going to give you the opportunity to "double-down" on this. Post conclusive evidence that this works and that Pepsi has saved 800,000 gallons of fuel by the end of the week (no marketing BS on YouTube or half-assed non-scientific "reports" like this one). If you can't, well... that's a paddlin'

Are you up for the challenge?

rwehuman said:

There is nothing to discuss. it works.
(great pic)

Click to expand...

Got third party/independent lab confirmation of that? Or just some marketing stuff from youtube?

lawson---you must have missed it, the "discussion - over" and the "the new discussion is ... how do i get one?"

William. Just because you fall under the hater category as displayed in previous posts (SEE Below) you need not bring your negativity to this thread too. HHO works there is no need to ban discussion of it. unless.......I smell conspiracy......wait for it.......Big OIL owns the TDIClub forums.Oh no quick smash your computers run before the little black helicopters come for us!!!

Really this topic ought not be banned. Haters with nothing positive to say or facts to back them up ought to be banned from a particular thread. just my .02

ORIGINALLY POSTED FEB, 2006
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=137202&highlight=hydrogen+injection
Bunkum.
Quote:Originally Posted by Joe Golf
Increase fuel economy 15% and clean up the emmisions at the same time!!
The hydrogen Hy Drive now commercially available
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006...e_secures.html
Ummm, Where? and How Much? I couldn't find any thing like that in
your link. Oh, I see, it won't fit my car or yours or our neighbors......
Nevermind, I don't think it will work anyway. Every Car manufacturer
IN THE WORLD would jump all over it to improve their sales.
Sorry, but I am Skeptical.
Bill

What Publically traded company would use copyrighted logos, names, images etc. in a video? look it up Dynacert is a Publically traded. Thats an awfully big risk to take when you have to answer to investors. go away haters. It works.

VeeDubTDI great doc. How old is it who wrote it? where is the bibliography?

rwehuman said:

VeeDubTDI great doc. How old is it who wrote it? where is the bibliography?

Click to expand...

There is no bibliography and it doesn't have any conclusive data, unless you think data from 306 miles of HHO use on one truck is sound scientific method, hence why I called it a half-assed non-scientific "report" that shouldn't be used to prove your case.

rwehuman said:

William. Just because you fall under the hater category as displayed in previous posts (SEE Below) you need not bring your negativity to this thread too. HHO works there is no need to ban discussion of it. unless.......I smell conspiracy......wait for it.......Big OIL owns the TDIClub forums.Oh no quick smash your computers run before the little black helicopters come for us!!!
Really this topic ought not be banned. Haters with nothing positive to say or facts to back them up ought to be banned from a particular thread. just my .02
ORIGINALLY POSTED FEB, 2006
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=137202&highlight=hydrogen+injection
Bunkum.
Quote:Originally Posted by Joe Golf
Increase fuel economy 15% and clean up the emmisions at the same time!!
The hydrogen Hy Drive now commercially available
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006...e_secures.html
Ummm, Where? and How Much? I couldn't find any thing like that in
your link. Oh, I see, it won't fit my car or yours or our neighbors......
Nevermind, I don't think it will work anyway. Every Car manufacturer
IN THE WORLD would jump all over it to improve their sales.
Sorry, but I am Skeptical.
Bill

Click to expand...

I am Bill, not William. A moderator just bent over backwards to give you a chance to prove your fantastical claims and instead of taking advantage of a once in a (TDIclub) lifetime, you choose to spend your energy in an attempt to insult me.

This tells me that you know you don't currently have any sort of proof that the mods will accept and no hope of ever producing it.

Now, to paraphrase what the moderator told you, "Prove your HHO assertions or begone forever".

Bill

The company also changed their name in 2012...Because their ventures under a previous name failed.

The stock is $.08...We are not talking Boeing here. Almost sounds like you are here to try and pump up the stock....Pump and dump? I've seen enough of them, just not here.

Yes, you can produce hydrogen from water...But, the math and science regarding energy doesn't lie.

Your one video shows a guy making HHO(with an open flame, which is always a smart idea)...He fails to mention that you need electric to make it. It's not like he was just magically producing HHO with no energy input. Energy output of the HHO he produced won't equal power needed to create it. Unless he has figured out a way to reduce all energy loss with his leaky bucket doo hickey.

1. I dont have access to the Dynacert R&D info. ask for all the docs you want. I dont have 'em. you got me there. you win lock the thread or keep reading.

2. I can tell you in a very crude way in a 12v system I made I have cracked the Hydrogen/Oxygen molecular bond and ignited it. -the concept works.

3. Not even Bernie Madoff used copyrighted material in his scams. You better have a set of brass ones to steal from PBC.

4. All my investment capital is invested in commercial multifamily real estate I dont give or take stock tips.

At the end of the day I can only lead you to water or....H2O. Drink it or dont. believe it or not.
The choice is yours.

Ask and it shall be given you
Seek and ye shall find
Knock and it shall be opened unto you.

Please explain the fundamentals of creating hydrogen from water. I ask, as I am testing your knowledge.

You can place a cathode and anode in a container of water, pass a current through it, and break the bonds to create hydrogen and oxygen gas. I have done this as well, so yes electrolysis works. Nobody will argue with you that it wont work.

But does work output (in the form of HP/MPG) equal or be greater than work input (electrolysis)? The only way this would work, is if the hydrogen/oxygen gas piped into the engine made it run more efficiently.

But, from a physics standpoint, it doesnt work.(especially on a TDI which is already an efficient engine compared to others).

For example. 1 mol of Hydrogen gas (H2) contains roughly 240kJ/mol in a combustion setting. We all know from chemistry that 1 mol of a substance at STP is equivilant to 22.4L in volume (gaseous form). Lets say that your HHO system outputs 22.4L of HHO gas (and we will assume pure H2 here, and forget the O part) per minute. This would be an incredible system. You are producing 240kJ of energy per minute with the HHO. Sounds impressive!

*I have the numbers for gasoline here*

Now lets look at the car itself. Lets say we have a gas powered car (as thats what I have to work with) that gets 30MPG on it. That works out to 7.84l/100km (metric works better here). Gasolines energy content is roughly 5500kJ/mol (almost 23 times more energy per mol). Gasoline is dense as it is a liquid, there is roughly 7.14mol/l of gasoline. Now lets say you travel 100km/hour, at that rate and fuel mileage, you will use 7.84l of gasoline, or 56mol of gasoline. That means over the hour, the car consumes 308000kJ of energy.

Now look at the energy output of your awesome HHO generator. Over the hour, it produces 14400kJ of energy. Thats a large number, no doubt. But compare it to the gasolines energy content. Your HHO ouput is only 4.67% of the output of the gasoline consumed, so the maximum you would achieve in fuel economy increase would be 4.67%.

But in the real world, a DIY HHO kit would be lucky to do more than 2-4l/m of HHO gas. Lets assume your an average Joe Shmoe, and your kit does 5l/m (better than average). Over that hour of driving, you would produce 3200kJ of energy worth of H2 gas. That cuts the FE increase down to 1.04% of an increase. In MPG terms, you would go from 30MPG to 30.312MPG's.

And that assumes your producing pure H2 Gas. I will throw you a bone and say that perhaps these gasses (H2 and O2) help the engine run more efficiently. But, I dont see that happening with such a small energy content being produced. And that also assumes 100% efficient process of alternator charging, HHO system production, etc.

In the real world, the only increase you will see is the placebo effect of you wanting more MPG's so you drive more economically and interperet the results as your HHO system delivering.

rwehuman said:

2. I can tell you in a very crude way in a 12v system I made I have cracked the Hydrogen/Oxygen molecular bond and ignited it. -the concept works.

Click to expand...

Congrats! You did something that has already been done a million times over...No one is arguing the concept of electrolysis

And yes, hydrogen gas ignites! And it's lighter than air! Miracle! Lets go fill a blimp with it...Oh wait. Bad idea.

Energy cannot be created nor destroyed...You are using 12v power from alternator to make the HHO. Show me that the HHO produced contains the same amount of energy that was output by alternator to make it.

Spoiler alert...It won't.

I heard that Dynacert is coming out with an awesome Ionic Foot Detox too!

So... what we can take away from this is that HHO is junk science in the application being discussed because it takes more energy to create hydrogen gas from water than you get back by burning that hydrogen gas in an internal combustion engine. Nobody is arguing whether or not electrolysis works. Nobody is arguing whether or not burning hydrogen gas creates power.

This has been discussed on here numerous times in several threads. Because this is junk science and we are tired of explaining it to people, HHO has been added to the banned subject list to save our sanity and hopefully discourage newbies from buying into the marketing hype that you find all over YouTube and other places on the internet.

This wouldn't have been so bad if you hadn't called us all naysayers, accused TDIClub of being in bed with big oil, and insisted that it works without providing any actual evidence to support your assertions. I have searched the internet looking for confirmation on your $3.3 million dollar claim and your 800,000 gallon claim and come across nothing definitive other than some garbage on YouTube and the "analysis" that I linked in post #7 that would make high school science teachers cry.

My question to you now is: are you satisfied that this stuff doesn't work? Can we go back to discussing real science or would you like to continue looking for a magical revelation that will prove us all wrong? You still have a few days left...

My coworker and I played around with it on his 2007 Duramax, even building a stainless prototype and experimenting with different solutions in the reactor (we have access to industrial chemicals and apparatus the normal consumer does not have, along with a machine shop at our disposal). We had it building so much Brown's Gas it finally blew up the containment vessel under his hood, after about 6 months of upgrades and improvements to increase output. We neutralized the solution and luckily it didn't do any permanent damage. When we ran the calculations we quickly saw that while they were impressive to the eye, on paper they were paltry at best, and still a net loss compared to regular D2.

Having done the research myself and come to my own conclusions, I can tell you unequivocally that it is JUNK science at best and is a waste of time.

So take your hate-calling rant somewhere else.

The basic problem with HHO is that it violates the second law of thermodynamics (and sails close to the wind on the first law).

The 2nd law says that every real process must produce a certain amount of unusable energy. In other words, some of the energy put in is always unusable/unrecoverable.

So the energy used in breaking the O-H bonds in water to create H2 and O2 is higher than what's recovered when those two combust again to form water.

That electrical energy is lower than the fuel-derived heat energy used to turn the alternator too. You're losing at every level.

Anecdotal heresay. No facts.

This dude should run for office.

I did post this link in fuel Economy.
Brown Gas or controlled farting both the same to me.
I have done many years work with CNG conversion and injections systems on gasoline and diesel engines. Posted allot of what works and what goes boom.
I just spent time in PA with AEB products top fuel delivery engineer on there news Duel Fuel CNG systems for Diesel engines. It takes a lot of designing and testing to add or inject a gasses fuel in to a engine and have it work right.
So just add some brown gas to a engine and you have magic. I think not.

I just do not see how they will get the increase they claim ? And what would be the real cost of the box to the consumer with out funding?

Hexfuel converts water into hydrogen and oxygen to increase your diesel mileage and reduce your emissions.
http://masschallenge.org/startups/2014/profile/hexfuel


H2 is Hexfuel BoostBox technology assistance more efficient and safe hydrogen in the market today.

- Simple, safe and easy to install on ALL diesel engines, takes about 3 hours to install.
- Create 99.9% pure H2 and O2 from DISTILLED water.
-Use the unique patented PEM cell technology that requires no chemical additives.
-NO maintenance required. Just add DISTILLED water (approximately 9 liters per 2,500 km traveled)
- NO modifications to the engine, sensors or computer configuration are performed.

They sure do have a fancy video and some great marketing hype.

TDI_Coast2Coast said:

And yes, hydrogen gas ignites! And it's lighter than air! Miracle! Lets go fill a blimp with it...Oh wait. Bad idea.

Click to expand...

Actually think, if the Hindenburg was filled with propane/butane/gasoline fumes would we have 50 or 49 states? The Hindenburg did not blow up or explode. It burned. most of the people died from burns not a concussive explosion. watch the news reel again it was not over in an instant. it took 30 seconds to bring it down. it didn't go boom.

Abacus said:

We had it building so much Brown's Gas it finally blew up the containment vessel under his hood

Click to expand...

No flash back arrestor or bubbler?

So have you done any more research on energy in vs. energy out?

rwehuman said:

No flash back arrestor or bubbler?

Click to expand...

It was a bubbler, just produced too much gas for the system to utilize and it ruptured, sending the caustic solution all over the engine bay. We spent considerable time working on a few iterations of the prototype. No need for a flashback device since that was not the issue.

rwehuman said:

Actually think, if the Hindenburg was filled with propane/butane/gasoline fumes would we have 50 or 49 states? The Hindenburg did not blow up or explode. It burned. most of the people died from burns not a concussive explosion. watch the news reel again it was not over in an instant. it took 30 seconds to bring it down. it didn't go boom.

Click to expand...

I think we all have seen the reel enough times...

Exactly where did I say it blew up? I need to go see an eye doctor...FOR FREE!

I was just saying that we learned Hydrogen was a bad idea for blimps...Twas a joke and nothing to do with HHO, other than it was also an epic fail.

Just like people believe in leprechauns and unicorns, people will continue to think you can make something from nothing....