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Old February 2nd, 2014, 16:20   #1
whitedog
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bend, Oregon
Default Car won't start, need information

Yes, I have looked through the no start thread...

Details: Bought 2001 Jetta, automatic, dead. Car was running and it died. They hauled it to a shop where they put a pump and timing belt on and it hasn't started since. Checked base timing and the cam was off just a bit and the pump was off about 150 degrees. Reset everything.

Glow plug light comes on. Immobilizer light is flashing, it has a start blocked by immobilizer and it originally had a P1609 - crash shut down - and it cleared.

It will fire on ether.

Cam looks great.

About the immobilizer... It should allow it to fire, but it won't even do that, though I have had at least one cylinder pop on two different tries. I have connected the pos and neg cables together, I have ran an autoscan and tried starting when clearing the codes and I have left the key on (though maybe not long enough). I looked at fault codes in the Immobilizer group but it said

"No faults found
Or DTCs not supported by controller
Or communication error occured."

This is an Immobilizer II car so I am thinking that this is normal and the place to look is the instrument group. Looking in the instrument group, I found this:
20 VW Z7 Z0 A3
21 27 84 98 N/A
22 0 1 1 2
23 1 0 1 N/A

I don't know if this means anything, but someone had a suggestion to look at that.

The car sat for quite awhile and the battery was dead so I am assuming that is the cause of the Immobilzer.

Compression may be a bit low (<20 PSI) on one cylinder compared to the others cold, but it should still run until the immobilizer shuts it down.

There hasn't been much said here about the P1609. Just two people in three threads and they were inconclusive so this one is new to me.


I built a pressure bleeder to bleed the pump and even put pressure to it when starting.



I am questioning the new pump so I popped the top and as I roll it to TDC, the cam plate is all the way retracted. I popped the top off of my dead pump and it does the same thing. Here is my question: Is this correct? Should the cam plate be at (or very near) BDC when the pin for the pump is at TDC? What I am wondering is since they bolo'ed the pump timing, did they loosen the nut on the pump and get the pump out of time?

Or is this pump just junk? I noticed that it has no tamper-evident paint on it and that scares me. But haven't the Prothe pumps at least run for a little bit?

I am contemplating pulling the pump off of the Beetle and trying it.

I checked group 1 with VCDS and injection quantity was up to 50 when trying to start, but I don't really know what it should be when it's trying to start.

What am I missing? I may be missing something obvious, so don't be shy asking. I may have checked it already, but forgot to mention it.

The ASV is open and the intake isn't clogged shut.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 16:39   #2
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I checked MB 5 and actual start of injection stays at zero during start.

And I just realized the Super Bowl just started. I'll check back later.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 16:46   #3
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Go to the cluster, clear codes even if you don't see any.
Go to its adaptation channel 00, read and save.
Go the the engine controller, clear codes even if you don't see any.
Go to its adaptation channel 00, read and save.
Turn off the car. Wait 1 minute.
Turn on the car and try to start the car.
If the immobilizer light is flashing, you need to resync the key(s).
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 16:54   #4
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Is there any possibility you could have a bad 109 relay? I had a similar problem, replaced the 109 with a brand new relay and still nothing, then DanG144 recommended using a jumper wire from the battery to the fuel pump solenoid...and I was able to drive it to his house to diagnose. We determined the problem was a bad brand new 109 relay.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 18:40   #5
whitedog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOGolf View Post
Go to the cluster, clear codes even if you don't see any.
Go to its adaptation channel 00, read and save.
Go the the engine controller, clear codes even if you don't see any.
Go to its adaptation channel 00, read and save.
Turn off the car. Wait 1 minute.
Turn on the car and try to start the car.
If the immobilizer light is flashing, you need to resync the key(s).
I remember now reading about that Glen, I just haven't tried it.

I am pretty sure that I have two problems, but I may be wrong.

One is it won't let it start fueling and the other is the Immobilizer. Or will something with the immobilizer keep it from fueling to fire in the first place?

The immobilizer icon is flashing, so that means I need to resync the keys with VCDS, right? I don't need the SKC for that?

I have a glow plug light and I am getting power to the solenoid so my Relay 109 is good. I should double check it though. I know that someone had pulled the panel off to access it so I will put that on my list as well.

Oh... Sometimes the Glow plug light blinks as well. I'm pretty sure that there was a couple of times that it wasn't flashing, but I may be wrong.
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Last edited by whitedog; February 2nd, 2014 at 18:43.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 18:50   #6
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Are you getting white putrid smoke out the tailpipe when you are cranking?
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 18:58   #7
whitedog
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Vroom, vroom.

Glen, I hope you make it out here again. After clearing both modules, the IM light was still on, then I cleared the Cluster again and then read and saved adaptations in the cluster and the light stopped flashing but the GP light was flashing. I read and cleared adaptations in the engine and the GP light stopped. I got it cranking fast enough and she fired. Now I think I'll go home and mess with this tomorrow.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 19:02   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greengeeker View Post
Are you getting white putrid smoke out the tailpipe when you are cranking?
I am now. But I had nothing before.

I still don't know why it initially died, but they screwed up the timing belt so the pump was way out of time and they were so frustrated that they just let it sit until the battery died and the immobilizer caused troubles.

Now - thanks to MoGolf - the immobilizer is taken care of and she will be ready to drive soon.
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Old February 4th, 2014, 16:32   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitedog View Post
Vroom, vroom.

Glen, I hope you make it out here again...


Perhaps the drive to or from Colorado Springs planned for later this year will get a little longer.

Glad to read you got it running.
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Old February 4th, 2014, 16:48   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOGolf View Post

Perhaps the drive to or from Colorado Springs planned for later this year will get a little longer.
Glad to read you got it running.
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