Low SAPS or High SAPS? Whats the dif yo?
- Thread starter 97B4TDi
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Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
Which oils in particular are you comparing, that'll help determine which is recommended. [Low and high SAPS have different limits for API oils vs. Euro oils.]
SAPS = Sulfated Ash, Phosphorus, Sulfur. Level of traditional additives.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2868824
SAPS = Sulfated Ash, Phosphorus, Sulfur. Level of traditional additives.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2868824
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
The 5w30 and 5w40?
TDIMeister
Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
If your car doesn't have advanced aftertreatment like a DPF -- your `97 doesn't -- there's no need for a low SAPS oil. Non-low SAPS oils (not calling them high-SAPS) will have higher quantities of anti-wear compounds which almost invariably contain P or S, like ZDDP and MoS2. I'd rather have maximum wear protection in my older vehicle than the latest letters on the API classifications.
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
If we are talking API oils, CJ-4 oils, since 2006/2007, have no issues with protection. For Euro oils, pick a 0w40 or 5w40 and run it with no hesitation.
TDIMeister
Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
I was inarticulate in my post. Happens more and more these days... API classifications is not the best example to illustrate my point but I'll go with it a little further before I make my salient point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil#American_Petroleum_Institute (not an infallible reference, I know, but bear with me).
Moving on from the API specs for better examples: the OP's `97 and my `98 specify oils meeting VW 505.00 and ACEA A3/B4. Putting VW 506.xx or 507.xx -- even though they are supposed to be backwards compatible to 505.xx -- are clearly NOT in the best interests of wear protection for older engines. Ditto using an ACEA A5/B5 oil in place of A3/B4 particularly because of lacking HTHS viscosity (2.9-3.5 mPa.s) for one.
The take home message is DON'T buy oils solely on a misguided belief that higher letters or numbers always mean better.
I'm currently using Castrol Syntec 0W-30. The bottle states it meets VW 505.00, ACEA A3/B4 but "only" API CF-4. The latter spec and the viscosity might ring alarm bells with some people, but I'm confident it will fare no worse than a latest CJ-4 oil missing the VW and ACEA designations. The data sheet for this product shows HTHS of 3.5 MPa.s, the minimum required for ACEA A3/B4, but at least meets it.
By the way, it was -21°C two nights ago and -26° last night in my locale and it's only mid-December. I'm very glad I went with the 0W-30.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil#American_Petroleum_Institute (not an infallible reference, I know, but bear with me).
North American owner's manuals might list API CF-4, owing to what was current at the time in which they were printed. IMO, people are under a false sense to base their oil buying decision on simply having the latest API classifications without knowing more about the whys and whats of each succeeding classification - and they're not expected to; it is the supposed experts at the sales counters and professionals servicing their cars who should know this and give appropriate advice to the owners.
Moving on from the API specs for better examples: the OP's `97 and my `98 specify oils meeting VW 505.00 and ACEA A3/B4. Putting VW 506.xx or 507.xx -- even though they are supposed to be backwards compatible to 505.xx -- are clearly NOT in the best interests of wear protection for older engines. Ditto using an ACEA A5/B5 oil in place of A3/B4 particularly because of lacking HTHS viscosity (2.9-3.5 mPa.s) for one.
The take home message is DON'T buy oils solely on a misguided belief that higher letters or numbers always mean better.
I'm currently using Castrol Syntec 0W-30. The bottle states it meets VW 505.00, ACEA A3/B4 but "only" API CF-4. The latter spec and the viscosity might ring alarm bells with some people, but I'm confident it will fare no worse than a latest CJ-4 oil missing the VW and ACEA designations. The data sheet for this product shows HTHS of 3.5 MPa.s, the minimum required for ACEA A3/B4, but at least meets it.
By the way, it was -21°C two nights ago and -26° last night in my locale and it's only mid-December. I'm very glad I went with the 0W-30.
tditom
Top Post Dawg
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^^^well said
Does it actually have the "-4" or is it just CF? That's the way it used to be. I can't remember seeing an oil with VW50x and an API other than CF.
TDIMeister
Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
You're right - CF (don't have the empty bottles anymore, just going by what's on the interwebs 
). Oh noes, my engine is going to blow up!
). Oh noes, my engine is going to blow up!
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
It's an MB 229.5 oil, it has to be goodYou're right - CF (don't have the empty bottles anymore, just going by what's on the interwebs
Cool Breeze
Veteran Member
Low-Saps uses a different additive chemistry that is compatible with newer diesel and gas emissions systems. I would not confuse different to mean "less".
KB3MMX
Well-known member
LOW SAPS = Lower Protection, DPF emissions friendly
HIGH SAPS = Higher Protection, NOT DPF Friendly....
"SAPS" ...or the "additive package" that protects the engine from wear......isn't friendly with DPF's, thus a Emissions Friendly "LOW SAPS" version available.
Regarding older API certs, CI-4+ had higher engine wear protection than the new CJ-4 standard....for similar reasons.
.
HIGH SAPS = Higher Protection, NOT DPF Friendly....
"SAPS" ...or the "additive package" that protects the engine from wear......isn't friendly with DPF's, thus a Emissions Friendly "LOW SAPS" version available.
Regarding older API certs, CI-4+ had higher engine wear protection than the new CJ-4 standard....for similar reasons.
.
rhhsiao
Active member
Based on the comparison tool from Lubrizol, that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm curious as to what data suggests the CI-4+ certification has better wear protection than the newer CJ-4?
http://origin-qps.onstreammedia.com...tives/100132RPtool2012Deploy/rp/hd/index.html
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
Regarding CJ-4, here's the API FAQ on it:
http://www.apicj-4.org/faqs.html
There's also a discussion thread I started years ago about: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=215098
The Sky Is Falling syndrome when CJ-4 came out in 2006/2007 never had any merit.
http://www.apicj-4.org/faqs.html
There's also a discussion thread I started years ago about: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=215098
The Sky Is Falling syndrome when CJ-4 came out in 2006/2007 never had any merit.
CitoriTrap
New member
Not trying to hijack, but I have choice of Low, Mid, High Saps for my 05 PD golf. I would like to use the High Saps for the Anti wear protection, even if it is a 505 oil & my car recommends Mid Saps for 505.01.
For the folks that make reference to Lubrizol's Relative Performance Tool, note the opening paragraph on the web page:
"The performance charts are not a literal translation of a performance specification and should not be used as a replacement for evaluating engine oil performance in accordance with the relevant vehicle manufacturer's requirements."
If it were as simple as choosing a oil from the chart that shows the most coverage then there wouldn't be much discussion about lubrication. But, it isn't.
"The performance charts are not a literal translation of a performance specification and should not be used as a replacement for evaluating engine oil performance in accordance with the relevant vehicle manufacturer's requirements."
If it were as simple as choosing a oil from the chart that shows the most coverage then there wouldn't be much discussion about lubrication. But, it isn't.
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