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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old July 19th, 2013, 11:36   #1
ibexlatham
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Default Different kind of CR turbo build

Let me start off by saying this probably wont be updated that frequently since it takes me forever to find the time to work on the car... but that being said, here is what I have so far and what I'm currently planning and gathering parts for...

He's the car and engine mods so far... I've decided to upgrade this to a "build thread" to shorten my sig.

Black 2009 Jetta TDI with 02Q

Mods done:
Malone stage 2 tune, Rawtek down pipe and catted & resonated mid-pipe, Borla cat-back, Allard HP EGR delete, aFe pro-dry intake, LP EGR delete, S3 intercooler, Sachs Racing Clutch, GTI Bi-xenon lights, highline CECM, euro Audi TT short shifter, GTI shift knob, New South vent-pod, RCD-510, 2micron HPFP protection, Panzer plate, VW Sport springs, Energy Suspension dogbone insert, aluminum Passat control arms, S3 LCA bushings, Hotchkis FSB and RSB @ 105% and 200%, Plasti-dipped grills, and MK6 GTI seats.

Planned upgrades... once winter leaves... eventually.
CR170 turbo hybrided with 2056 internals, Euro turbo intake tube (required with CBBB turbo, already at home), Darkside hard pipe I/C pipes, 4 bar MAP sensor, Neuspeed turbo outlet, Update to Malone custom tune, GTI brakes.... and eventually (finally) install the front GTI seats.

While it isnt a GTB2260VK kit I'm estimating it should be good for a rough estimated 220hp with a conservative tune.

I originally started the plan as a "budget" CR170 turbo upgrade with a used CBBB turbo for about $1000 total with just a CR170 turbo and a custom tune looking for about 200hp, but obviously I decided to go a different route... the advantage of the CR170 turbo is it is a virtually direct bolt on and will work with the Rawtek exhaust I currently have without modifications.

I've been trying to keep track of the costs of the turbo build since I've bought most everything second hand...

Turbo ~ $250
Rebuild and modify ~ $1050
S3 Intercooler - $300 shipped
Clutch and DMF ~ too low to advertise
Euro turbo intake ~ $45
Neuspeed outlet - $135
Retune plus dyno time - ???
EGR cooler delete - $2

Total cost so far (w/o clutch) - $1780... I'm estimating everything (minus shipping and existing mods) ~ $3000

Last edited by ibexlatham; March 20th, 2014 at 18:35. Reason: updated to build thread.
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Old July 19th, 2013, 11:50   #2
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CBBB turbo is a KKK turbo, far from a GTB. How do you plan to make a Garret GTB hot side which is quite small fit into a KKK turbine housing?

Why not just take a stock manifold, chop it, weld on a flange to position the GTB in the right place then weld a v-band onto the gtb so it mates to your rawtek exhaust?
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Old July 19th, 2013, 12:32   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFettig View Post
CBBB turbo is a KKK turbo, far from a GTB. How do you plan to make a Garret GTB hot side which is quite small fit into a KKK turbine housing?

Why not just take a stock manifold, chop it, weld on a flange to position the GTB in the right place then weld a v-band onto the gtb so it mates to your rawtek exhaust?
I ended up going this route because I originally only planned on the CR170 turbo upgrade, so I bought it cheap and had it shipped to my friend in the UK, the hybriding was an after-thought once I sent it to my friend in the UK and he suggested it.

And TBH I've been working on this since April so I dont remember everything thats being done exactly (and my phone has deleted some of the messages ). I do know the housing are being machined ever so slightly to fit the hot and cold side wheels with more appropriate trims (which I dont recall off the top of my head). The builder has done similar mods on some PD170 turbos and has been working on CR140/170s. I do know that once its done it still wont exactly be a GTB but I wasnt looking for massive amounts of power and was trying to avoid a full custom install.

I could have also welded a flange on a stock manifold but I was hoping to avoid all of the issues that come along with a complete custom turbo install. The one I have should bolt in without modifications... the car is my DD, and I dont have a garage to put it in, so taking it off the road for extended periods of time isnt possible and sometimes it can be weeks before I have a few hours to work on big projects due to time and weather...

Basically I planned on this being cheap, quick, and easy... then changed plans a little....
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Old July 22nd, 2013, 19:03   #4
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does the CR170 turbo bolt directly into our stock exhaust?
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Old July 23rd, 2013, 08:07   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamock116 View Post
does the CR170 turbo bolt directly into our stock exhaust?
It will (or should...) bolt directly to a stock exhaust, but, putting one on a stock US CR140 wouldnt be a simple drop in replacement. Neither of the EGRs would function or you would need to find a way to adapt both EGRs to the CR170 turbo.

The CR170 only has 1 EGR (IIRC) and the EGR port for the CR170 turbo comes out on the passenger side of the manifold, the US CR140 the HP EGR port is on the driver side. The intake wont match up either as the CR170 does not have the "mixer" for the LP EGR and no ability to bolt one to it.

So... probably not a viable drop in turbo upgrade for a stock car.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 15:07   #6
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Slowly making progress...

Thanks to a raccoon I've had the S3 intercooler installed for a month now, I have noticed some better performance over the stock I/C with the butt-dyno.

Just waiting on the turbo and EGR cooler delete, unfortunately the builders of both of those were called away to work... should get those soon though. Everything else I have in hand or on hold with the shipper.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 17:50   #7
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Whered you pick up the intercooler?....Id love to upgrade as well
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Old September 5th, 2013, 18:07   #8
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I picked it up on vwvortex, I put out an ad for one and someone came forward with a new one they never installed. It's almost a direct swap, just need to modify the hoses and buy some different bolts for the radiator and condenser.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 18:43   #9
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there is no worries about the rawtek downpipe not mating up to a GTB turbo both RyanP and DPE downpipe line right up to the turbine outlet. just cut vband off and put new flange on or run an adapter that will probably push it further to the passenger side but will still work due to the amount of space the downpipe has to move around.. i had no issues with my build.. using DPE downpipe.. i just chopped the vband off as close tot he edge i could and then welded on a gtb flange...bolted right up.. nearly identical to stock position... i swear the stock DPF could be used with my turbo/manifold setup..
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Old September 6th, 2013, 00:30   #10
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You are correct that the Rawtek pipe would mount to RyanP's turbo kit if I had welded on a new flange. I was actually considering that at first... Then I decided I would shoot for a mild upgrade with just the CBBB turbo so I found one for $260... Then talking with a friend he mentioned hybriding it, so was an afterthought really.
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Old November 4th, 2013, 13:46   #11
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As promised this wouldn't be updated often....

Got the SRE clutch and DMF fitted this weekend and with the falling temp concluded my season to work on the car as I dont have a garage.

Then of course this funny looking fellow arrived the other day, just in time for winter and to tempt me all winter...

CR170 turbo with the housings machined to accept Garrett 2056 internals.



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Old November 4th, 2013, 13:55   #12
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Thats not the same 2056 I'm thinking of. Did you use the turbine as well or just compressor?
Looks like a K04 compressor(only based on the 4 blade design)
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Old November 4th, 2013, 15:14   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFettig View Post
Thats not the same 2056 I'm thinking of. Did you use the turbine as well or just compressor?
Looks like a K04 compressor(only based on the 4 blade design)
TBH I'm not exactly sure of what other turbo it would be comparable to, but it uses a different compressor wheel and turbine wheel, the builder said the turbine is only 10 thousandths larger with different blade profile, but still only 8 blades (he's not always very clear on the specs). The compressor is 4 full blades and 4 ever so slightly cut-back blades.

I guess that goes with the custom turbo territory, I'm not sure what to compare it to... The builder said on a PD170 a similar turbo made close to 240hp.

I'm guessing ~220hp because I take everything with a grain of salt

I'm hoping for a happy medium between a CR170 swap and GTB2260VK...
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Old November 4th, 2013, 15:43   #14
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I'm eager to see what this puts down.
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Old November 4th, 2013, 16:48   #15
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I'd love to check this car out as the build progresses! I'm not too far away.
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