www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums TDIFAQ Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2014 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You



Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Fuels & Lubricants

Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 14th, 2013, 11:36   #1
Zambee500
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Default Qs re: TDT vs. Rotella T6 vs. Delo 400 in summer

This might be a risky thread to start, but here goes: are these about equal for a PD motor in the summer, or which one of these would be better for high ambient temperature use? From what I've gathered here over the years, T6 is a bit thinner than TDT and it makes T6 a great choice in the winter up north for cold start-ups, as well as marginally better MPGs with T6 than TDT. And TDT gets the nod over T6 for longer drain intervals (although T6 is fine for 10k miles).

Does that mean conversely that TDT, being a bit thicker, would be better in the summer in the South with high outside temps? I noticed Shell advertises T6 specifically for high-temp operation, but not sure what to make of that so I thought I'd ask the experts. For the past several years I've run T6 in the winter and TDT in the summer, and then whichever in the shoulder seasons. Just double-checking that philosophy as it's time for another oil change and where I am we've got 2 more months of 90+ degree weather.

Also, how do the characteristics of Delo 400 LE compare to T6 and TDT? On the thicker or thinner side? And 10k vs. extended OCIs? Other differences?
__________________
2005 Passat GLS TDI (sedan)
Zambee500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2013, 11:52   #2
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
 
Bob_Fout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Indiana
Default

1. Yes
2. Pick any of the three.

Your oil does not get to high temps unless you are on the track and have lots of mods. Otherwise, oil temp is regulated (oil/water heat exchanger).

The "thick" vs. "thin" aspect of T6 vs. TDT is in cold weather only (below 25*F or so). All three are close in terms of 100C viso and HTHS.

Stick with 10K/1 year intervals unless you have UOAs to show it can be extended.

Pick whichever is cheaper or which company you wish to support (Chevron, ExxonMobil or Shell)
__________________
2003 TDI Mafia Member, modified with 17/22. Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5w40
Photos | Mods | CJ-4 Oils | Oil Analysis | Stage II Cam
Bob_Fout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2013, 12:15   #3
Zambee500
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Default

Thanks, Bob. I suspected about as much.

I don't have any mods except a stage2 cam replacement, if you can call that a mod. When I had that done it sounded like it was the hot, outside ambient temps that really accelerated the cam wear; hence my questions.

I've got a quart of TDT leftover, so I can get by with just a 1 gallon purchase for next oil change. So even thought TDT pricing has spiked compared to the Delo400 LE and Rotella T6, for now that would be most cost-effective in the short term. Hopefully we will also see some UOAs of the Delo in a PD motor before my next OCI.

Thanks again, Bob.
__________________
2005 Passat GLS TDI (sedan)
Zambee500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2013, 12:24   #4
Maffken
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WNY
Fuel Economy: TBD ; Avg 40'ish mpg.
Default

My ALH hasn't had any starting issues save for old glow plugs and a failing battery (Possibly a starter, but it stopped making noise) with T6 and I've started it down as far as 12 Fahrenheit.

Lower than that and I just don't want to go out . Plus it's been abnormally warm most of the last few years.

I don't have a PD but I'm inclined to keep using T6 just to make it easier on my wallet (I can sometimes get a discount on it + I've got some leftover). I might spring for something thicker If I lived somewhere warmer (90+f like GA/ 5w40 instead of 5w30) but I really don't see a 10 difference in weight making much a difference, at least until you get into really cold winters; I doubt you'd even get cool enough in GA to justify it anyways to be honest. Cold to me is 23-5f and below, above that I doubt any real issues.
Maffken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2013, 12:25   #5
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
 
Bob_Fout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Indiana
Default

No prob

Whose Stage 2 cam is it? They may have specific recommendations.

You might also find a local Schaeffer Oil dealer and get some S9000 5w40, it's very reasonably priced.

http://www.schaefferoil.com/supreme-...ngine-oil.html

http://www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_fil.../9000-Logo.pdf
__________________
2003 TDI Mafia Member, modified with 17/22. Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5w40
Photos | Mods | CJ-4 Oils | Oil Analysis | Stage II Cam
Bob_Fout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2013, 12:45   #6
Zambee500
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Default

I'll double-check the Schaeffer. There are 3 resellers in my "commute zone" so I will call them to see how they have it priced. In the past, it's been priced a good bit higher than Pentosin HP2 and LiquiMoly Diesel High Tech, so I never could justify Schaeffer over other options. But I'll see where it's priced now locally. Thanks for the suggestion.
__________________
2005 Passat GLS TDI (sedan)
Zambee500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2013, 07:37   #7
romad
Veteran Member
 
romad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oroville, California People's Republic
Default

In my area T6 is more available and cheaper per gallon than TDT.
__________________

The fleet:
2005 Jetta Wagon "Cranberry" (bought July 2011)
2004 Toyota Prius (bought August 2004)
1990 Mazda Miata (bought July 1989)
romad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2013, 07:51   #8
Zambee500
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by romad View Post
In my area T6 is more available and cheaper per gallon than TDT.
About a $3-4 difference where I am, unless you can find a M1 sale going on and can sneak the TDT past the cashier as part of the sale. And Delo 400 LE is $2 cheaper than T6. But I need 4.5 qts for an oil change, and another 1/2 - 1 qt. for topping up throughout the OCI. So in my current situation that's 2 gallons of T6 or Delo 400 or 1 gallon of TDT (to go with the leftover quart+ I already have). I generally don't like mixing oils, although I know there are 2 camps of thought on that issue.
__________________
2005 Passat GLS TDI (sedan)
Zambee500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2013, 09:43   #9
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
 
Bob_Fout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Indiana
Default

I too wish quarts of Delo 400 LE 5w40 were readily available like quarts of T6 and TDT are...
__________________
2003 TDI Mafia Member, modified with 17/22. Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5w40
Photos | Mods | CJ-4 Oils | Oil Analysis | Stage II Cam
Bob_Fout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2013, 22:35   #10
Cursed_9d8
Newbie
 
Cursed_9d8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Central Oregon
Fuel Economy: Avg 48 / Best 61.6
Default

I have run all 3 of these oils in my Jetta, trying to find the "best one" for my money. They are the only 3 brands readily available in my area. These are just some quick notes on the differences I noticed from the driver's seat....

I started with Rotella T6, as recommended by the VW mechanic who replaced my engine -
*Easy cold weather starts
*Quiet engine operation
*Limited smoke, only during cold starts and extreme heavy load conditions
*MPG 46-48 average
*Oil consumption < 0.25 qt every 1,000 miles
The better all-around product, IMHO.

Mobil 1 TDT -
*Engine operation much more quiet than the T6
*More difficult winter starts
*Smoking somewhat excessive during extreme cold or hot temps and during heavy load conditions
*MPG 45-49 average
*Oil consumption approx 0.5-0.75 qts every 1,000 miles
I like Mobil 1 oils and I use them in all my gas cars, but for the extra coin and the other minor drawbacks I experienced, it's not the best choice for my TDI application.

Delo 400 LE -
*Engine noise greatly increased, mostly during hot conditions (drive thru attendants have asked me to turn off my truck, and passengers have asked me "Is that noise normal?")
*Easy cold weather starts
*Some smoke at start up and during heavy load conditions
*MPG 42-47 average
*Oil consumption, 0 after 5,000 miles!
It's the least expensive option and I haven't had to buy any additional, but the noise is not worth listening to.

For what it's worth....
Cursed_9d8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2013, 23:30   #11
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
 
Bob_Fout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Indiana
Default

Cursed, thank you for your comparison.
__________________
2003 TDI Mafia Member, modified with 17/22. Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5w40
Photos | Mods | CJ-4 Oils | Oil Analysis | Stage II Cam
Bob_Fout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2013, 07:24   #12
adamrc
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nashville, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Fout View Post
Cursed, thank you for your comparison.
Yes, nice comparison. Seems that T6 is an all around very good balanced oil.
adamrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2013, 02:57   #13
Henrick
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ireland
Default

Mixing chemistry "summer oil" "winter oil" again and again might introduce more harm than a potential benefit.
Henrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2013, 06:55   #14
James & Son
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI(s): 2006 Jetta
Default

Are we all brain dead here. Like he said for whats its worth. I say its worth very little to adding to the knowledge we need to gather on this web site.

Oil consumption is the dead give away. The hths of T6 is 4.0, TDT 3.9 and yet T6 is the break in oil and has less than half the oil use per 1000 miles. Did he all of sudden switch to Biofuel or something. Now Delo goes to 0 per 1000 miles, not only that it is 0 for 5000 miles!
How can delo be louder than T6. Most diesel knock(noise) is generated by combustion and not the cam with hydraulic lifters, so was Curse fooling around with his timing. The only other thing would be the amount flow of oil and the thickness of the flow of oil in the cylinder head that might have a sound deadening affect. But the differences in these CJ4 oils is only in the additive package, the delo having lots of boron and moly and the others having much less. Delo has 550(edit actually 65) parts of boron, how does that make it loud.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1157741 edit: see pg 2 of this thread for proper VOA and UOA

Edit: I suggest that his oil sump is filling with biodiesel or fuel diluting and that is why he has zero oil consumption and his viscosity is water thin and that could be a more likely reason for the load noise.

Last edited by James & Son; July 28th, 2013 at 07:44. Reason: see edit
James & Son is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2013, 19:52   #15
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
 
Bob_Fout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Indiana
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James & Son View Post
Are we all brain dead here. Like he said for whats its worth. I say its worth very little to adding to the knowledge we need to gather on this web site.

Oil consumption is the dead give away. The hths of T6 is 4.0, TDT 3.9 and yet T6 is the break in oil and has less than half the oil use per 1000 miles. Did he all of sudden switch to Biofuel or something. Now Delo goes to 0 per 1000 miles, not only that it is 0 for 5000 miles!
How can delo be louder than T6. Most diesel knock(noise) is generated by combustion and not the cam with hydraulic lifters, so was Curse fooling around with his timing. The only other thing would be the amount flow of oil and the thickness of the flow of oil in the cylinder head that might have a sound deadening affect. But the differences in these CJ4 oils is only in the additive package, the delo having lots of boron and moly and the others having much less. Delo has 550 parts of boron, how does that make it loud.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1157741

Edit: I suggest that his oil sump is filling with biodiesel or fuel diluting and that is why he has zero oil consumption and his viscosity is water thin and that could be a more likely reason for the load noise.
Unfortunately I disagree with everything you posted...

He added his anecdotal impressions, as we all have done. Myself and others have seen increased oil consumption with TDT over multiple intervals, others have increased usage with RTS/T6. No way to pinpoint why some consume more of one or the other. The cold start difference absolutely happens, the VI corroborates it too. I bet TDT barely makes it into the 5w range, and with its unusually low VI for a 5w40, it makes sense.

Different oils CAN sound different, even of the same specs. These are not the same base stocks. This happens all the time, even with petrol engines with different oils.

FWIW TDT has an HTHS of 3.8 cP now. T6 is supposedly 4.0 cP, but it's not on the spec sheet. Delo's HTHS is also unknown.
__________________
2003 TDI Mafia Member, modified with 17/22. Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5w40
Photos | Mods | CJ-4 Oils | Oil Analysis | Stage II Cam
Bob_Fout is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to TDI T6 Or TDT TokraSniper Fuels & Lubricants 4 July 9th, 2012 09:09
Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 TDT..... Johhny04 Ontario 14 August 5th, 2011 08:49
Anyone Switch from Mobil 1 TDT to Rotella T6? EYE2 Fuels & Lubricants 48 March 12th, 2011 05:40
Rotella T6 & Rotella T SB? kwalsh24 Fuels & Lubricants 8 January 28th, 2010 16:38
Rotella 0w40 or chevron delo 400 synth. ? vitesse Fuels & Lubricants 16 March 19th, 2000 05:47


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2014
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2013, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.17856 seconds with 10 queries
[Output: 134.19 Kb. compressed to 112.80 Kb. by saving 21.39 Kb. (15.94%)]