Chicagoland Dealership Warning!

Just wanted to give a warning to people who live in Chicagoland area and recently changed oil at Jennings VW in Glenview. Go back and have them re-change your oil or change it yourself/elsewhere!
Apperantly, until recently, the dealership service department and their technicians did not know that 507 spec oil must be used on TDIs. Their certified trained techs used (and probably still use) 504 spec oil out of drums in TDIs. After an oil change I inquired which oil was used and the reply was given that they used the correct one. I then demanded to show the bottles and they were not able to produce them. They called up the technicial, who pointed out the drums, with 504 spec oil in them. I had to open up a manual to show that TDI engine requires 507 spec. The service manager had an 'oh $hit' look on his face.
Unfortunately, for me this was a second oil change I've done at that dealership and it never downed on me that they used the wrong oil (@10K). Silly me assumed that after more than 4 years in production, certified service techs would know what oil must be used. So at the second change (@20K) for some reason I decided to challenge them and what I got is the description above. Obviously, they change to the correct oil right away. However, the damage was already done.
After a conversation with service manager and his reply that nothing will happen to the car, I had to contact the VWoA. All they could do is be a middle man between myself and the dealership, claiming that this is not a company's (VW) fault, rathen then dealership's. So after a few weeks of phone calls I got a $100 discount on my 40K service. Wow! I was impressed (sarcastic smiley)!
So, I came back to the dealership and after more arguements with all the managers there, I was not able to get anywhere. They are claiming (verbally, obviously) that the car will be fine, that there's no long term effect, etc. The standard bs. One of the GMs even mentioned that I was lucky to even get $100 off, he wouldn't give me anything.
Well, lesson learned for me. This is the dealership I will never go back for service and I would not recommend it to anybody. Please stay away from Jennings VW in Glenview IL. Even if they change your oil correctly, you will not get a good service from them.
I understand that the car might be fine even after driving on the wrong oil for 10K. However, the key word is 'might'. Except VW engineers (if they ever done any testing of that kind), no one can claim that there will be no adverse effects after this.

Once again, I want to relay the message to everyone here, not to use this dealership for service. And be careful using other ones!

Precisely what brand and specifications were on the drum of oil that you saw? VW 504.00 runs hand-in-hand with 507.00 and I have never seen a standalone rating of any VW specification. If it had 504.00 on it then I'm certain that it also had the 507 rating.

If possible please give us exact details of what product you saw at the dealership.

...better yet, part number for the oil as listed on your invoice...

tdiatlast,

I'll get the part numbers in a few hours from the invoices, which I don't think matter much anyway.

FowVay,

I was very irritated at the dealership and did not take any pictures (didn't think I'll need them). I know the drum didn't have 507 anywhere on it and after the problem was discovered, they got the oil from parts department in 1L bottles.

This has been discussed before:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=370498

I, too, have never seen a 507.00 compliant 5w30 oil that was not 504.00, the two are typically hand-in-hand, like 502.00 and 505.00 are/were.

While I totally agree dealers, many of them, use the wrong oil, most of them just get a big drum of it and use that, and since BP/Castrol has had this available for 507.00 use, that is probably what most of them would use. It is the PDs that seem to fall through the cracks, as they don't ever seem to have had a bulk version of a 505.01 compliant 5w40 available here.

I know this was in discussion before and I'm not arguing wether 507 comes in a drum or not. This post is simply to warn people and for them to stay away from certain dealers. In my case I know they used wrong spec oil and they admitted they used the wrong spec. Their drum did not have 507.00 anywhere on it (I understand that 507 could also be 504, but not the other way around) and they did use bottled oil (G-052-195-1L) when the problem was discovered.

Oilhammer,
Too many 'probably' and 'would' in your post and that was my opinion before. As I mentioned in the original post that I assumed that 'probably' the dealer 'would' have the correct oil and they 'would' use it on my car. However, the fact is they did not.

I'm done with this dealership. The correct oil is now in my car. And I'm never going back there. And I wouldn't recommend for anyone either.

Seriously, was I not clear?

I have to admit I am very picky about the oil that goes into my car as well. I recently bought a car, and the oil was clear and looked very fresh. Still, I changed the oil. Now I KNOW what is in it. Since my car is out of warranty I will always change my own. Get the highest quality filters, and oil. For the few bucks a person might save on oil that is "on sale" it just is not worth it to me.

Nothing but the best for my V-Dub!

Dimon80 said:

Seriously, was I not clear?

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Yes, you were clear, however, when no one has seen an oil that is 504 compliant that isn't also 507 (I don't think they exist) it is going to raise questions since you specifically said it was 504 compliant.

I don't wish to appear "thick" here, but.......

Is the bottom line here that: 504-only oil isn't made anymore, it has been superceeded by 504/507 spec oil, and maybe the panic at the dealership amounted to nothing? The barrels may be being refilled with the new oil but they haven't bothered to change the labels, internal designation, moot point, etc, etc? (They may have brought out the little bottles to ensure both parties were unequivocally satisfied)

I'm really asking, to verify I'm correctly comprehending the situation.

Unless they added drum stock in the last 2 months, they use bottles. Just did my 40k there (3/29) and they gave me the leftover in the gold bottle (sealed in a Baggie). You have to manage service. I ask to see the oil ahead, etc. I've had pretty good experiences with them.

Now if you want to compare bad service notes, I can tell you about the dealer I left to go to Jennings. They all mess up. I only go to the same service writer and he's been very good. I delay setting up my apt until he's in.

I'd bet there are a huge percentage of 505 running TDis zipping around Chicagoland and elsewhere. I was the first ever at my previous dealer to get 507 in over 3 years of CR sales. They argued that VW gives them the option of what to use and that bottles weren't included in free service. That and trying to get me to pay for my free 30k brake fluid flush were two of five reasons I ran to Jennings.

And hey, they have good coffee

I stopped going to Jennings years ago. I had a 05 Passat TDI and they insisted on using Castrol Syntec 5w40 502.00 oil. I have since gone to Autobarn where I know the mechanic and he gives the left over bottles when I changed the oil for the Passat TDI and 09 Jetta TDI.

I had the same problem with the service manager. I showed printouts on the Castrol Syntec and he ignored it. Most people who buy cars from Jennings do not keep them very long, so its not their problem

Stay away from there.

Guys,

I know what I saw and I didn't see 507 anywhere on the barrel. Maybe they are reusing the drums or getting wrong ones, I don't really care. The fact is receipt says bottles, they used barrel, which doesn't meet the spec for diesel. Granted, they fixed the problem (after some arguing) and admitted the fact.
Possibly, I'm just irritated with the dealerships and maybe I'm expecting Audi treatment at VW, or getting wrong service reps... However, my experience with this dealership that they never find the problem on the first attempt. And that started on the first day when my AM radio didn't work. After a day in the service, the receipt states "could not duplicate the problem". I get in the car and turn on the radio - doesn't work. That means they never checked it.
For the fuel gauge not showing full tank when full, I was at the service three times before the problem was fixed. Now oil... My glove box is now packed with receipts
Now here, instead of support, I'm getting questioned by dealership advocates...

@TDISkater,

My service was done a week before your 40K. I was out of country for some time right after the service and after trying to get the dealership to respond for a few weeks after my return, I decided to share the experience here and to warn people.

I think we all have our dealer stories, no matter who. Some love and others hate - the same dealer. It's sad, just sad that VW has this type of overall network. I only will patronize the network until I'm a little closer to warranty expiration. Until then I watch like a hawk. At my last dealer during 20k service, I was standing the entire time watching. I had them so nervous the guy was waving the black bottles as he was walking over from parts. I yelled back - thanks Dave, but those should be gold. After he came back out, I was finally able to sit down.

Honestly, Jennings has been very accommodating to my nutty personality.

Dimon80 said:

Seriously, was I not clear?

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Nope, not without a picture... because none of us (and there are many oil nerds here) have ever seen nor heard of an oil that is "just" 504.00 and not also 507.00, at least not since 507.00 came out. I'm really curious as to what you saw on the drum. It did not look like the above picture? Trust me, I am NOT a dealer advocate, and DO absolutely believe they could be using the wrong oil. I'm more wondering if there is an oil out there that is being moved through BP/Castrol and/or Volkswagen's parts networks that could indeed be incorrect. If there is, we owe it to the TDIclub community to try and point this out. Because this, to me, is a big issue (I'd be just as pissed as you are). Your experience flies in the face of the statement "don't worry if your dealer uses bulk oil, the correct stuff is indeed available in bulk", because it opens one more door for Fail to walk through.

It would really be great if one of the locals stopped by and snapped a cell phone pic of this mystery oil and posted it.

Just did some looking in ETKA. The motor oils are listed on two different pages (I am looking at the newest stuff, in this case a 2014 JeM). One page has gasoline engines, one has diesel engines.

Both pages list the same part number (G-052-195-M6) for the 60L drum of 5w30 oil, but the gasoline page shows '504.00' next to it, while the diesel page shows '507.00' next to it. So if a Volkswagen dealer goes to order a drum of oil through the parts system, no matter what they are looking for they're going to get the same oil for 504.00 or 507.00 applications.

Same goes for the 5L jug (part number just has an 'M4' at the end) as well as the 1L bottle (part number GVW-052-195-M2).

Now that does not mean a dealership cannot order their bulk oil from a different supplier, many do. However, given the nature of the "free" service, Volkswagen will insist that genuine parts, including fluids, be used. And while VoA seems to have little ability to enforce QC at a dealer level, I'd bet that even they would not be quick for service reimbursement costs to a dealer if they had no record of purchasing genuine oil. And you know the dealers absolutely won't want to have any reason to not get reimbursed.

So it may be possible that a dealer is using bulk oil from a different supplier that they can get cheaper and work in a higher profit margin, and that gets used on all the customer-pay stuff, but stocks the minimal amount of genuine stuff for the free service. However, given the fact that Volkswagen is selling the dickens out of new cars now, it would make little sense to not have a LOT of genuine oil on hand, in which case a drum would be a far better way to manage stock.

Castrol has typically been the OEM supplier for Volkswagen motor oils, at least through the parts chain, but I have in the past gotten motor oils that were from Texaco and some that had no name on the bottle at all (just a white bottle with the VW company stuff all over it).

So if it was a drum that was NOT a Castrol product, it may be that dealer sources their bulk oil elsewhere. But I am still not aware of ANY motor oil that would carry a VAG 504.00 spec alone without the 507.00 spec, be it Motul, Pentosin, Fuchs, Liquimoly, etc.

Whew...sorry to be taking your time like this, OH...you've got better things to do, I'm sure.
Every once in a while, though, it's nice when you chime in and gently hold our hands and calm us down...

Hey, I eat-breath-sleep-live-love-and-drive Volkswagen. This is hardly a waste of my time, this is what I like to do. You know I drove all the way to DC and back this weekend for a Volkswagen? (OK, I got to see some friends and eat some great Thai food, too...)

How come you didn't invite me out for Thai food? Next time, maybe?

tdiatlast said:

How come you didn't invite me out for Thai food? Next time, maybe?

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You'd have to ask compudub, I was just kinda in and out actually. Car54 and Suds met us there, that was it. Sorry I missed you I was just grabbing my Vanagon from their house.

The odd thing here is that I was serviced two weeks after the OP, at the same dealer, with bottle stock. Granted I specifically asked for that, but didn't pay more for it. Paid what I was quoted when I scheduled my 40k service. When I saw the barrel stock during my oil drama at my previous dealer, it clearly showed the double code 502 / 505. Very strange what the OP experienced.

If the oils are the same, why are they called by two different names? Is the 507 oil specific engine backwards compatible with 504? If it was there is no need to have two different specs or names for the same oil. I would think that 504 oil should be superceded to 507, and 504 should just go away. Just my thoughts.

No, because 504 is a gasoline spec, and 507 is a diesel spec (just like 502 and 505, respectively). It is just that many (most) oils will meet various VAG specs at the same time, so you'll see them listed separately.

The two oils we use here are Pentosin HP2 5w40, which meets 502.00, 505.00, 505.01 and Pentosin SP3 5w30, which meets 504.00, 507.00. This is typical of most of the brands of oil that have VAG specs listed.

oilhammer said:

No, because 504 is a gasoline spec, and 507 is a diesel spec (just like 502 and 505, respectively). It is just that many (most) oils will meet various VAG specs at the same time, so you'll see them listed separately.
The two oils we use here are Pentosin HP2 5w40, which meets 502.00, 505.00, 505.01 and Pentosin SP3 5w30, which meets 504.00, 507.00. This is typical of most of the brands of oil that have VAG specs listed.

Click to expand...

That helps clear it up for me, thanks.

Dimon80 - I have to echo your experience with Jennings. I was a loyal customer and had bought 2 VW's there - a 2005 Phaeton and 2008 Rabbit. I was having both vehicles serviced there and when it was time to have the 30,000 mile service for the Phaeton (a ridiculous $1,300 event, mind you) I wanted to have them install 4 new tires from Tire Rack that I was going to have shipped there. Their Service Manager refused and said "only" if they put my tires into inventory and resold them back to me at retail ($1,240). I was completely insulted by the arrogance. The service person seemed apologetic ' that's our Manager - there's nothing I can do'. Well, they lost me as a customer and I promptly went to Fox Valley VW in Schaumburg where they cheerfully accommodated me - and picked me up from the commuter train station. I subsequently bought my first TDI in Dec 2010, trading in my Rabbit for the 2011 Golf. FV VW uses the correct 507 low-ash oil (I've gotten the individual bottles back). They said that 504 Oil won't hurt the "engine" in any way but may speed up the clogging or deterioration of the DPF due to excess ash in the exhaust. Needless to say the Jennings salesman was not happy he lost a repeat customer because of an arrogant, short-sighted service manager.

Who's the service manager there now? I worked there in the early 90's.....not fun to say the least.

Never mind...looked it up.

I sometimes stop at Jennings to pick up some small parts. So a few months ago I asked one of the service reps for a quote on a TB for my Golf, knowing better of course not to have them do the job. The rep showed me an invoice from some other TB, TDI that they had done. The price was like $1500 and the parts list only showed a belt, water pump and maybe a tensioner. No replacement bolts were listed. No thanks. Next time I'll see if I can get a glimpse of an oil drum.
I ended up doing my own TB with parts and tools from one of our vendors.

Well it's Chicago, you should be thankful you did'nt get shot!