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General Automotive General automotive discussion. This is intended to be a discussion about other not VW and Diesel cars you may have or interested in.

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Old July 2nd, 2013, 09:53   #46
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Somebody ought to write a book about it. It would make interesting reading in speed trap court cases.
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 13:43   #47
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The effectiveness of the speed-study argument depends on the attitude of the local roads departments, politicians, and legal situation, and that's different in every area.

Here in Ontario, speed limits seem largely set by the whims of local politicians with scant consideration given for normal traffic flow, and I would reckon that the 85th-percentile speed is likely 20 km/h above the posted speed limits on average and there are some complete absurdities that are much worse, like this one ... Why the 50 km/h limit (note for the Americans, this is 31 mph)?

https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll...12,164.69,,0,0

By Ontario's own normal practices, this ought to be 80 km/h, and it feels completely normal to do 100 km/h here (and in Germany, that would be the limit on a road like this) ... but that will get you a "stunt driving" charge.

Here's another one ...

https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll...39.18,,0,-4.33
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 16:17   #48
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Originally Posted by GoFaster View Post
The effectiveness of the speed-study argument depends on the attitude of the local roads departments, politicians, and legal situation, and that's different in every area.

Here in Ontario, speed limits seem largely set by the whims of local politicians with scant consideration given for normal traffic flow, and I would reckon that the 85th-percentile speed is likely 20 km/h above the posted speed limits on average and there are some complete absurdities that are much worse, like this one ... Why the 50 km/h limit (note for the Americans, this is 31 mph)?

https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll...12,164.69,,0,0

By Ontario's own normal practices, this ought to be 80 km/h, and it feels completely normal to do 100 km/h here (and in Germany, that would be the limit on a road like this) ... but that will get you a "stunt driving" charge.

Here's another one ...

https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll...39.18,,0,-4.33
Hasn't there been a effort in the last couple of years to try to change the law to allow higher limits to be posted in Ontario?? Every time I have been on 401 and other freeways in the area traffic was running 75-80 mph, it seemed dangerous to go any slower. It would be nice if they posted the limit at least close to travel speeds there........
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 17:07   #49
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Arrow NH gets higher limit Jan 1

NH Gov signs law allowing increase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan signs bill raising I-93 speed limit
AP / July 2, 2013

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — Starting in January, drivers can go a little faster on parts of New Hampshire’s Interstate 93.

Gov. Maggie Hassan signed a bill into law Tuesday raising the speed limit effective Jan. 1 from 65 miles-per-hour to 70 miles-per-hour on I-93 from mile maker 45 between Exits 17 and 18 in Canterbury to the Vermont border. There’s an exception: the stretch through Franconia Notch.

Hassan encouraged drivers to obey the new limit and keep their safety in mind and the safety of others.

Lawmakers had considered and rejected raising the speed limit on other stretches of highway. The only increase approved was for the stretch of I-93 that Hassan agreed to on Tuesday.

‘‘We must always be cautious when considering speed-limit increases in order to maintain the safety of our citizens and of visitors using our highways,’’ Hassan said in a statement. ‘‘The limited nature of the 5 mile-per-hour speed-limit increase in a targeted region of the state, along with the overwhelming, bipartisan support for the measure, makes me comfortable with signing this measure into law, bringing the speed limit more in line with the habits of our rural travelers.’’
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 17:15   #50
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In the NC house the safety ^$%$%&^ seem to have been successful in blocking a tightly controlled increase to 75 as the maximum..........


The best it looks like we might get is 4 test sections proposed for allowing the increase, under the control of a legislative committee. So don't hold your breath of them ever allowing 75 to be posted in NC under this arrangement, which is exactly what the safety mafia/( you can give these closed minded groups whatever name you wish!) wanted all along!!!

There are hundreds of miles across NC, thousands of miles across the entire south that could easily and safely be posted @ 80 today but insurance companies would loose billions......And they will never ever stop fighting with their cooked up data claiming that allowing higher legal speeds on highways designed to handle these speeds will lead to more deaths.

We now have over 7 decades of data that says otherwise, we have real data collected in states that have allowed increased speeds safely on two lane roads( up to 75 mph ) and freeways( up to 85 ) since the ending of the NMSL.....

update; safety (**()__ won defeating the bill.....No chance for a increase again until 2015.
I'm curious what sections you feel could/should be raised to 75mph? Aside from I-40 east of Raleigh.

Thanks!
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 17:15   #51
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Then there's Oregon - 55 through metro freeways and all highways, maximum 65 on rural interstates.

Oregon is described pretty well at 10 seconds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7OLCbjuidE

-BB
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 17:22   #52
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Ohio get 570 miles posted @ 70 mph July 1. Also on June 30 the Gov signed a law allowing 70 on other US and state routes that meet interstate specs. State DOT spokesperson stated today(July 1) that it would likely be 90 days before we know what other highways across the state will see the increase to 70 mph.

these are a few of the roads that might qualify for the increase under the law signed sunday;

OH 2 west of Cleveland,

OH 5 around Warren,

OH 11 from Lake Erie down to Dilles Bottom,

OH 16 from Newark to Marneo,

US 20 from Oberlin to I-480, US 23 from Waldo to OH 423 ,

US 24 Indi state line to OH 66, US 30 Van Wert to OH 309 & US 23 to I-71 & Wooster to OH 57 & OH 172 to Wacofrom ,

US 33 from US 68 to I-270 & from Carroll to Sugar Grove & a section of US 33 & US 50 around Athens,

US 35 from Xenia to Richmond Dale & from Jackson to W VA state line less 8 mile stretch in the middle,

US 68 from I-70 to just north of Bowlusville,

US 250 from Uhrichsville to I-77, and US 422 from Auburn Corners to I-271.
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 17:51   #53
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Originally Posted by Thirstyturtle328 View Post
I work for the NCDOT. I'm curious what sections you feel could/should be raised to 75mph? Aside from I-40 east of Raleigh.

Thanks!

I-85 from just north of Salisbury to Greensboro, when it is finished from Concord to Greensboro

I-40 from - Old Fort to Morganton, Statesville to the Yadkin river , and from Raleigh to Wilmington

I-77 north of Statesville,

the new section of US 70 south of Raleigh( Clayton Extension ) & from just outside of Kinston to New Burn,

US74/future I-74 From Rockingham to Hamlet & from Lourinburg to just past I-95, and the section around Whiteville

US 264 & US 64 east of Zebulon on the sections today posted @ 70,

Formerly known as US 117 now is I-795,

the north end of I-85 to the VA line,

the north end of I-95 to the VA line

And the US 17 bypass around Windsor

All of these are where it is posted @ 70 today. There are hundreds of miles that could today be safely be posted today @ 75 across NC. I have driven most of the freeways in the last decade and all safely handle speeds today of 75-80+.

By the way in an interview with DOT officials when the bill first passed the senate they listed most of these as possible candidates for the increase if the law passed......
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 17:56   #54
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I-85 from just north of Salisbury to Greensboro, when it is finished from Concord to Greensboro

I-40 from - Old Fort to Morganton, Statesville to the Yadkin river , and from Raleigh to Wilmington

I-77 north of Statesville,

the new section of US 70 south of Raleigh( Clayton Extension ) & from just outside of Kinston to New Burn,

US74/future I-74 From Rockingham to Hamlet & from Lourinburg to just past I-95, and the section around Whiteville

US 264 & US 64 east of Zebulon on the sections today posted @ 70,

Formerly known as US 117 now is I-795,

the north end of I-85 to the VA line,

the north end of I-95 to the VA line

And the US 17 bypass around Windsor

All of these are where it is posted @ 70 today. There are hundreds of miles that could today be safely be posted today @ 75 across NC. I have driven most of the freeways in the last decade and all safely handle speeds today of 75-80+.

By the way in an interview with DOT officials when the bill first passed the senate they listed most of these as possible candidates for the increase if the law passed......
Thanks for the detailed response! I'll look into these some tomorrow. You sure do know the state!
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 18:28   #55
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Originally Posted by Thirstyturtle328 View Post
Thanks for the detailed response! I'll look into these some tomorrow. You sure do know the state!
I have family on Oak Island, Hendersonville, Morehead city, lived in the Winston area, and the Raleigh area.

I have made that drive to the coast at least a few times a years for ~40 years.

US 264 & 64 east of Zebulon are long empty stretches with up to 3/4 of a mile between the east & west lanes in sections that could safely handle 100 mph!

US 70 on the Clayton extension is new built to the highest safety standard and from Kinston to New Bern is very straight and flat has light traffic so both stretches could easily handle 75.

The stretches of US 74/ future I-74 listed above are also new and built to the highest safety standard so would have no trouble accommodating 75. The stretch of US 74 around Whiteville is old but the east & west lanes are separated by quite a bit so it could safely handle 75.

I-85 from the Yadkin river to Greensboro is a empty wide many lane freeway that is one of the safest stretches of highway in the state. The north & south bound lanes are far apart in much of this stretch.

I-40 from Statesville to the Yadkin rivers has the east & west bound lanes far apart on most of that stretch so would have no trouble accommodating 75.

I-77 north of statesville is on rolling hills with long sight distances and at many points with the sides divided by up to 1/2 a mile. This is one of the safest roads in the state that today has a 70 mph posted limit.

US 117, now I-795 is only a few years old with light traffic so could easily safely handle 75.

The Windsor 17 bypass is empty and new so would have no trouble with a 5 mph jump.

I-85 & I-95 north to the VA line also could handle the 5 mph increase without problem.
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 18:40   #56
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I have family on Oak Island, Hendersonville, Morehead city, lived in the Winston area, and the Raleigh area.

I have made that drive to the coast at least a few times a years for ~40 years.

US 264 & 64 east of Zebulon are long empty stretches with up to 3/4 of a mile between the east & west lanes in sections that could safely handle 100 mph!

US 70 on the Clayton extension is new built to the highest safety standard and from Kinston to New Bern is very straight and flat has light traffic so both stretches could easily handle 75.

The stretches of US 74/ future I-74 listed above are also new and built to the highest safety standard so would have no trouble accommodating 75. The stretch of US 74 around Whiteville is old but the east & west lanes are separated by quite a bit so it could safely handle 75.

I-85 from the Yadkin river to Greensboro is a empty wide many lane freeway that is one of the safest stretches of highway in the state. The north & south bound lanes are far apart in much of this stretch.

I-40 from Statesville to the Yadkin rivers has the east & west bound lanes far apart on most of that stretch so would have no trouble accommodating 75.

I-77 north of statesville is on rolling hills with long sight distances and at many points with the sides divided by up to 1/2 a mile. This is one of the safest roads in the state that today has a 70 mph posted limit.

US 117, now I-795 is only a few years old with light traffic so could easily safely handle 75.

The Windsor 17 bypass is empty and new so would have no trouble with a 5 mph jump.

I-85 & I-95 north to the VA line also could handle the 5 mph increase without problem.
Thanks again for the detail.

There are lots of things to take into consideration with thinking about raising the speed limit. For instance, every interstate in North Carolina was originally designed with a 75mph speed limit. It is NCDOT's policy to design a roadway 5mph higher than the intended posted speed limit. Also, you have to consider clear distances which is the distance to fixed objects such as trees or ditches, this increases quite a bit with only a 5mph speed increase due to the already high speeds. There are lots of other things to consider, one of which is crash history. Would YOU be comfortable raising the speed limit in an area where there is a substantial run-off-road crash pattern? Putting your name on it? Lots of things to think about other than if you're comfortable at that speed. You have to make roads idiot proof. Not for or against the change, just some things to think about. I do hope they pass the bill and give the NCDOT the OPTION of raising it if we see fit after conducting the proper research and engineering studies.

Thanks!
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 20:24   #57
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Would YOU be comfortable raising the speed limit in an area where there is a substantial run-off-road crash pattern? Putting your name on it?

First thing I'd do is put in rumble strips. They've saved me countless times.

But otherwise, good points.
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 23:22   #58
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Thanks again for the detail.

There are lots of things to take into consideration with thinking about raising the speed limit. For instance, every interstate in North Carolina was originally designed with a 75mph speed limit. It is NCDOT's policy to design a roadway 5mph higher than the intended posted speed limit. Also, you have to consider clear distances which is the distance to fixed objects such as trees or ditches, this increases quite a bit with only a 5mph speed increase due to the already high speeds. There are lots of other things to consider, one of which is crash history. Would YOU be comfortable raising the speed limit in an area where there is a substantial run-off-road crash pattern? Putting your name on it? Lots of things to think about other than if you're comfortable at that speed. You have to make roads idiot proof. Not for or against the change, just some things to think about. I do hope they pass the bill and give the NCDOT the OPTION of raising it if we see fit after conducting the proper research and engineering studies.

Thanks!
I understand all of that, I have done research on what NC requires to allow the 70 limit and the requirements in NC uses are overly cautious compared to many states. NC is overly cautious in the posting of all rural highway and freeway maximums. And if you look at the data there is no evidence that NC keeping limits as low as they have has made any of our rural roads any safer than states that have adopted 85th percentile related limits on all roads.

In many states the limit would be 70 over many more miles than are allowed in NC today. The stretch of I-85/I-40 from Greensboro to Durham comes to mind as being currently under posted compared to what it would be in many states with similar design and traffic flow.

And I did consider that these stretches of highway that I speak of already have good safety histories when it comes to high speeds and safety or they wouldn't have the 70 maximum posted today in NC. These highways have long site distances, wide bridges which are required in NC at least to get the 70 limit and they all have clocked safe travel since the limit was raised back to 70 in the 1990s.

I get it that NCDOT doesn't want to make any roads more dangerous but we have a history of posting limits well below what they should be here across the state, what they are safely posted @ in other parts of the US designed to similar standards with similar traffic flow. And like I said there is no evidence that the policy that NC has continued of keeping limits low well below actual travel speeds has made travel any safer than it is in states that post limits @ or close to the actual 85th percentile speeds.

In other parts of the US they have posted two lane highways to 65 or 70 safely, but NC seems to not be willing to consider posting the limit close to the speed drivers actually are traveling. Continuing to keep the 55 limit on rural two highways has never accomplished making drivers go that slow, I speak from over 3,000,000 miles clocked in 46 states and 6 countries.

I am sure NCDOT has real collected data from the last ~7 decades showing the average travel speed on most two lane rural roads in the low to mid 60s mph, the same as it was before the NMSL was put in place. Which means that the limit that should be posted @ 60 or 65 for it to have any relevance. A few states have rural two lane highways posted as high as 75, but many have posting them @ 60-65 mph in the last few years. I would be happy if NC would raise them to at least 60.

And I am also sure NCDOT has data showing the 85th percentile speed on rural divided highways in the high 60s to 70. And data showing that rural freeways are clocking in mid to high 70s to around 80 mph over most of the states freeways. Which I am sure you know means that the current posted maximum are today set too low. It would be nice if we were to take the limit control out of the legislatures hands putting it back into the hands of the DOT without political maximums on the books today.

If would be nice if the DOT had the ability to do the speed studies, evaluate the safety record of a given stretch of highway or freeway and post the limit that is similar to the speed drivers are actually traveling safely today! That would make travel safer. The continuation of the current policy of keeping political maximums that in no way reflect what is the real safe travel speed, what are today's real safe speed which in most of NC is above the current posted limit does nothing to improve safety, but what is does do is fill the coffers $$$ from drivers getting ticketed for doing nothing unsafe.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 05:09   #59
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I understand all of that, I have done research on what NC requires to allow the 70 limit and the requirements in NC uses are overly cautious compared to many states. NC is overly cautious in the posting of all rural highway and freeway maximums. And if you look at the data there is no evidence that NC keeping limits as low as they have has made any of our rural roads any safer than states that have adopted 85th percentile related limits on all roads.

In many states the limit would be 70 over many more miles than are allowed in NC today. The stretch of I-85/I-40 from Greensboro to Durham comes to mind as being currently under posted compared to what it would be in many states with similar design and traffic flow.

And I did consider that these stretches of highway that I speak of already have good safety histories when it comes to high speeds and safety or they wouldn't have the 70 maximum posted today in NC. These highways have long site distances, wide bridges which are required in NC at least to get the 70 limit and they all have clocked safe travel since the limit was raised back to 70 in the 1990s.

I get it that NCDOT doesn't want to make any roads more dangerous but we have a history of posting limits well below what they should be here across the state, what they are safely posted @ in other parts of the US designed to similar standards with similar traffic flow. And like I said there is no evidence that the policy that NC has continued of keeping limits low well below actual travel speeds has made travel any safer than it is in states that post limits @ or close to the actual 85th percentile speeds.

In other parts of the US they have posted two lane highways to 65 or 70 safely, but NC seems to not be willing to consider posting the limit close to the speed drivers actually are traveling. Continuing to keep the 55 limit on rural two highways has never accomplished making drivers go that slow, I speak from over 3,000,000 miles clocked in 46 states and 6 countries.

I am sure NCDOT has real collected data from the last ~7 decades showing the average travel speed on most two lane rural roads in the low to mid 60s mph, the same as it was before the NMSL was put in place. Which means that the limit that should be posted @ 60 or 65 for it to have any relevance. A few states have rural two lane highways posted as high as 75, but many have posting them @ 60-65 mph in the last few years. I would be happy if NC would raise them to at least 60.

And I am also sure NCDOT has data showing the 85th percentile speed on rural divided highways in the high 60s to 70. And data showing that rural freeways are clocking in mid to high 70s to around 80 mph over most of the states freeways. Which I am sure you know means that the current posted maximum are today set too low. It would be nice if we were to take the limit control out of the legislatures hands putting it back into the hands of the DOT without political maximums on the books today.

If would be nice if the DOT had the ability to do the speed studies, evaluate the safety record of a given stretch of highway or freeway and post the limit that is similar to the speed drivers are actually traveling safely today! That would make travel safer. The continuation of the current policy of keeping political maximums that in no way reflect what is the real safe travel speed, what are today's real safe speed which in most of NC is above the current posted limit does nothing to improve safety, but what is does do is fill the coffers $$$ from drivers getting ticketed for doing nothing unsafe.
Extremely well thought-out response. You need to go to Raleigh and convince them!

By the way, this:
"In other parts of the US they have posted two lane highways to 65 or 70 safely, but NC seems to not be willing to consider posting the limit close to the speed drivers actually are traveling. Continuing to keep the 55 limit on rural two highways has never accomplished making drivers go that slow, I speak from over 3,000,000 miles clocked in 46 states and 6 countries."
^^^^They're currently throwing around the idea of making the statutory speed limit 45mph instead of 55mph, then fielding requests to have them raised back to 55mph. The majority of serious injury and fatal crashes in NC are single-vehicle crashes on 2-lane rural roadways with a 55mph speed limit. Just so you're aware, I think there's a 0.0001% chance of the 55mph statutory speed being raised in either of our lifetimes.

At any rate, I'm interested to see what happens with it but like I said, I'd like to at least have the DOT have the latitude to raise a speed limit if it sees fit. Lawmakers aren't engineers...although they act like it an awful lot.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 18:00   #60
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Extremely well thought-out response. You need to go to Raleigh and convince them!

By the way, this:
"In other parts of the US they have posted two lane highways to 65 or 70 safely, but NC seems to not be willing to consider posting the limit close to the speed drivers actually are traveling. Continuing to keep the 55 limit on rural two highways has never accomplished making drivers go that slow, I speak from over 3,000,000 miles clocked in 46 states and 6 countries."
^^^^They're currently throwing around the idea of making the statutory speed limit 45mph instead of 55mph, then fielding requests to have them raised back to 55mph. The majority of serious injury and fatal crashes in NC are single-vehicle crashes on 2-lane rural roadways with a 55mph speed limit. Just so you're aware, I think there's a 0.0001% chance of the 55mph statutory speed being raised in either of our lifetimes.

At any rate, I'm interested to see what happens with it but like I said, I'd like to at least have the DOT have the latitude to raise a speed limit if it sees fit. Lawmakers aren't engineers...although they act like it an awful lot.
Are they really that clueless at the DOT???? the current 55 limit on rural highways is unenforceable, 45 would just be a ridiculous bad joke!

I have over 30 years of driving on NC rural highways, have plenty of friends my age that drive on them every day across the state. And without exception they all have radar detectors and set the cruise @ ~65 on two lane highways while crossing the state. If they at the DOT or Raleigh ever want the limit not to be ignored by 99.9 % of drivers it will have to be raised. the NCHP doesn't even seem to try to enforce anything short of close to 68-70 on two rural highways, if they did there would be an outcry across the state to change the limit! Hopefully they are not stupid enough at the DOT not to get that!

You should take a trip to the west and see what it is like to drive at the speed you feel comfortable without worry of a ticket. Freeways commonly are traveled in the low to mid 80s without worry of ticket, two lane highways are safely and comfortably traveled for miles on end @ ~70 mph. It is hard to drive in NC when I go back home, I do not pull out of my driveway without my radar detector in place! I was really hoping, at least I finally had some hope that maybe some of those long drives across the state would be a little less nerve racking with a posted 75 on those areas I listed....Oh well, maybe in 2015!

And by the way, I never speed on surface streets. I have not had a ticket of any sort in over 30 years. I only go what is now considered safe today and allowed in states on rural highways and freeways. And I keep a close watch out for what is going on in the states I have to cross regularly limit wise and enforcement wise!
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New York State Votes to Speed Up Change Over to ULSD Prior To Federal Deadline SkyPup Fuels & Lubricants 7 July 9th, 2002 05:07
State by State Diesel Emissions Tests - Canada too SkyPup TDI (Diesel) Emissions 10 February 18th, 2001 14:41
Any NEW News on New York state and TDI's? cschmidt VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 4 December 2nd, 1999 20:59


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