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Old January 27th, 2013, 21:09   #1
samuraitd
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Default 1.9 (m)tdi injection pump question

so heres the story, new to the forum, got an 86 suzuki samurai, looking at purchasing an 98 ahu tdi, i want to run it mechanically, now i know that you can buy pumps built by several places, however, giles i believe it was wanted a hefty price plus two cores to build it for me, i thought, but wasnt sure, that i heard somebody used a 1.9 td, mechanical pump, on the tdi, and it worked rather well, but i cant find the thread anywhere!!!!!!! can anybody help me? i know this is probably a repost, but i dont wanna break the bank on a pump, i just graduated highschool, and want to do this swap before college starts, also, has anybody used prothes 500 dollar mtdi pump? i have read some pretty nasty stuff about that guy, thanks in advance
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Old January 28th, 2013, 00:10   #2
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I personally regret buying prothe products. They have fallen apart without exception. Owning a tdi is expensive, and if you save money by buying inferior parts you will without exception regret it eventually. The best way to retrofit any motor in my opinion is to buy a running parts car
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Old January 28th, 2013, 00:13   #3
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By going mTDI you lose power and fuel efficiency. I would install with electronics. And look at alh instead of ahu. More power to start with, more parts available, more room for improvement.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 00:15   #4
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1z/ahu have a tin valve cover, alh has an aluminum valve cover
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Old January 28th, 2013, 05:32   #5
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An IDI (1.6 NA or TD) pump will run the engine, but not very well. You will definitely be losing out on a lot of power and efficiency. I don't think I've ever come across a thread where someone claimed this setup 'worked rather well.'

I would never purchase a Prothe pump. I've read only bad things about his so-called M-TDI pumps.

Do your research on M-TDI. Maybe embarking on this project at this point in your career isn't the best idea. Unless you are building the pump yourself, it's not a cheap endeavor.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 06:25   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samuraitd View Post
so heres the story, new to the forum, got an 86 suzuki samurai, looking at purchasing an 98 ahu tdi, i want to run it mechanically, now i know that you can buy pumps built by several places, however, giles i believe it was wanted a hefty price plus two cores to build it for me, i thought, but wasnt sure, that i heard somebody used a 1.9 td, mechanical pump, on the tdi, and it worked rather well, but i cant find the thread anywhere!!!!!!! can anybody help me? i know this is probably a repost, but i dont wanna break the bank on a pump, i just graduated highschool, and want to do this swap before college starts, also, has anybody used prothes 500 dollar mtdi pump? i have read some pretty nasty stuff about that guy, thanks in advance
You have read bad coz there is reason for it. Some of what I remember reading included blown motors due to bad products, and also have read that when he does get sued and looses he closes and reopens under another name. He actually has LOSTS of names he works under. 20-30 stores are attributeed to him from what i can remember. A good reputaion only needs 1 store. He is on the avoid at all cost list with most everyone here.

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Old January 28th, 2013, 08:20   #7
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thanks to all, i will skip prothes junk then, and i am NOT talking about using a 1.6 pump, its a 1.9td from the german engineering guy, and now that i think about it, i dont think it was on this forum, i think it was on one of the offroad forums, but i cant remember
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Old January 28th, 2013, 08:27   #8
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I put a MTDI pump from another Canadian guy into my sidekick with an AHU. Pump works great, but if I had to redo it I'd spend a little time learning the wiring schematics and making my own electronic TDI harness to get the full power and efficiency that comes with the electronic pump. (not to mention RC upgrades)
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Old January 28th, 2013, 09:00   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samuraitd View Post
thanks to all, i will skip prothes junk then, and i am NOT talking about using a 1.6 pump, its a 1.9td from the german engineering guy, and now that i think about it, i dont think it was on this forum, i think it was on one of the offroad forums, but i cant remember
I think you're confused.

1.6TD and 1.9TD are both IDI.

There is no 'factory mechanical' 1.9TDI.

There is a mechanical pump off of a VW LT 2.5 TDI that is sort of bolt-on. A Land Rover 300TDI pump will bolt on (if using the VW hub and pulley)as well.

Go over to vwdiesel.net and do some reading in the TDI section.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 09:05   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djrhetoric View Post
I think you're confused.

1.6TD and 1.9TD are both IDI.

There is no 'factory mechanical' 1.9TDI.

There is a mechanical pump off of a VW LT 2.5 TDI that is sort of bolt-on. A Land Rover 300TDI pump will bolt on (if using the VW hub and pulley)as well.

Go over to vwdiesel.net and do some reading in the TDI section.
no, i know that there is no factory mtdi, but what im saying is, i know the idi pumps dont put out as much pressure as a tdi pump, but i want to know if i can use a pump off a 1.9 td, and use it on the tdi?
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Old January 28th, 2013, 09:08   #11
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Originally Posted by mannytranny View Post
I put a MTDI pump from another Canadian guy into my sidekick with an AHU. Pump works great, but if I had to redo it I'd spend a little time learning the wiring schematics and making my own electronic TDI harness to get the full power and efficiency that comes with the electronic pump. (not to mention RC upgrades)
what engine did you get the pump off of? thats exactly what i want to do
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Old January 28th, 2013, 09:11   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samuraitd View Post
no, i know that there is no factory mtdi, but what im saying is, i know the idi pumps dont put out as much pressure as a tdi pump, but i want to know if i can use a pump off a 1.9 td, and use it on the tdi?
It depends on what you mean by 'use,' but I would say no.

I'm sure you could get the engine to idle using a 1.9TD (AAZ) pump, but actually drive it? I doubt it.

IDI does not equal DI. You need DI internals to run the engine properly.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 09:12   #13
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Bottom line:




*Any* mechanical pump is going to require a bunch of parts, some substantial know-how, tweaking, etc, for proper results... which is why Giles uses parts from a couple different pumps.
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Last edited by Vince Waldon; January 28th, 2013 at 18:25.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 09:14   #14
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Originally Posted by samuraitd View Post
what engine did you get the pump off of? thats exactly what i want to do
There are three 'easy' options for building an MTDI (easy being very subjective in this case):

VW LT 2.5 TDI pump with mods
Land Rover 300TDI pump with mods
Completely custom pump using an AAZ (1.9 IDI) pump and 1Z/AHU (1.9DI) pump as cores (as you have already found).
Some have also used Cummins 4BT pumps as a base, but that requires more work...

Last edited by djrhetoric; January 28th, 2013 at 09:20.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 09:45   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djrhetoric View Post
There are three 'easy' options for building an MTDI (easy being very subjective in this case):

VW LT 2.5 TDI pump with mods
Land Rover 300TDI pump with mods
Completely custom pump using an AAZ (1.9 IDI) pump and 1Z/AHU (1.9DI) pump as cores (as you have already found).
Some have also used Cummins 4BT pumps as a base, but that requires more work...
i see, hmmmmmmm this sucks, kay, im gonna do some searching see what i cant dig up, thanks for being patient guys, keep in mind, im a noob to this!
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