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TDI 101 Got a simple/basic TDI question? Are you a newbie (new to the forums). Feel free to post your question here.

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Old May 30th, 2015, 07:17   #31
wrenchman30
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thread sealer anti corrosion isn't thread locker
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Old March 1st, 2016, 11:25   #32
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I have a question. Both of my 18 mm vertical bolts fail to torque proper. Just finished a timing belt change. Can these the threads (Time Serts) be added with the motor mount bracket attached to the engine? If so, seams like a good alternative.

Thanks
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Old March 1st, 2016, 12:34   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIray View Post
I have a question. Both of my 18 mm vertical bolts fail to torque proper. Just finished a timing belt change. Can these the threads (Time Serts) be added with the motor mount bracket attached to the engine? If so, seams like a good alternative.
Thanks
If you can get straight in with a drill then yeah, they can be fixed on the car.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 13:53   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIray View Post
I have a question. Both of my 18 mm vertical bolts fail to torque proper. Just finished a timing belt change. Can these the threads (Time Serts) be added with the motor mount bracket attached to the engine? If so, seams like a good alternative.

Thanks
I did it this way. Wasn't fun, but I managed. Sadly, I didn't tap on hole far enough and I ended up having to cut the insert off (with a dremel), not a lot, but I wasn't happy I messed up. Been over a year and 25k+ miles and it's holding up so far. Take your time.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 17:49   #35
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Originally Posted by wrenchman30 View Post
while these thread repairs are nice your assuming they are stronger, your screwing them into aluminum which is the weakness in the first place
One of the reasons this repair or a Heli coil repair is stronger than the original threads is that after the repair the load is now spread out over a much larger area.
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Old March 8th, 2016, 11:15   #36
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I got the Time Sert installed. The install went well. I did file the insert tops just a little to make them flush with the mount bracket. This was a life saver. I did not have to redo my time belt this way.
Thanks a lot for this thread everyone.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 13:14   #37
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Sorry the bing this thread back to life, I have have had issues with this lately. First on a 1.8T TB job the bracket threads came out with the bolts and yesterday the threads in one bracket hole let go right at the end of the 1/4 turn. I have had good results running a 1/2" 13 tap down the problem hole and drilling out and tapping the center hole. I then use 1/2" grade 8 bolts torqued to 44lbfts with thread lock and a spring washer. 3 bolts on total. Works fine and is a cheap fix.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 16:37   #38
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Threadlocker and spring washer? That would be so the bolt doesn't back out. I'm not aware of any problems with the bolts backing out. The issue is with the threads on the mounts pulling out.

I suppose, however, that if the 1/2" grade 8 holds then that's good enough. Someone versed in bolt strengths can speak to this vs the stock bolts (which are higher grade, but a bit smaller).

Timeserts really work because their outer threads have a BIG bite in the mount and the steel hole threads contact with steel bolt threads is MUCH greater than stock. The ONLY issue/concern I'd have on any of this would be whether the intended collision break-away forces are adversely affected: I really don't want to test this out!
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Old June 20th, 2017, 04:44   #39
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Yeah both thread lock and a spring washer are overkill but do no harm. But I see what you're saying in that the bolt will not back out with the engine hanging off the threads.

Timeserts look really nice, but are not that much cheaper than a new bracket...
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Old June 20th, 2017, 09:19   #40
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We have been asked when installing a similar repair for glow plugs, why we don't use TimeSerts. The answer is, we do! But only if we find a HeliCoil will not work. The HeliCoil is much less expensive and if it were to fail, and we have done hundreds of Helicoil repairs for both the gp's and the engine mounts, you still can back up the Helicoil repair with a TimeSert.

We would need the Helicoil repair to fail before ever considering a TimeSert in a gp repair. For me,the first step hasn't failed yet.

I have had the Helicoil repair fail in the engine mount, but as you see, so does the TimeSert. There is a limit for what the 12mm bolt will hold in an aluminum hole and that is all you can do. Fortunately, the price of replacement engine mounts has come down. We can get new ones for under $120. Considering the replacement cost is why we have not particularly concentrated on repairing engine mounts. For me, the time to repair an engine mount compared to replacing has become quite close.

Years ago, we showed a thread repair in place, using a Helicoil, which would not have been possible with the TimeSert. The TimeSert would be too big to work. We stripped the front bolt, which at 1am in the morning, you either quit or find a workaround. We drilled out the hole(31/32nd drill) in place, and recoiled the hole inside of 15 minutes. That beat the alternative all to pieces.

As a footnote, we stopped using the torque + 1/4 turn method for engine mounts years ago. I think it's a bit absurd method anyway. The 10mm bolts are a direct 45 ft lbs torque. The 12mm, we use 65 ft lbs. The body mount is 35 ft lbs. It causes less problems and we have never had an engine fall or strip a mount when using those numbers, unless the mounts were previously damaged anyway, then we either fix it or replace it. Of course, we use a torque wrench that is calibrated, which is really quite easy to do.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 12:27   #41
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Great info, Frank!

I'll note that on my use of the Timeserts that I went that way only because I didn't want to pull the old mount (I'd had the TB all set- it was my first job and I didn't want to risk messing the TB up). But I agree with Frank in that the time that it takes to do repairs is generally not worth it when compared to the price of a new mount: this is especially true for professionals (which I am not)!
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Old July 5th, 2017, 22:59   #42
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There are basically three ways to fix a stripped motor mount:
- (1) Replace it with a new one [expensive]
- (2) drill, tap and pray [lots of labor]
- (3) make it work 100% by using nuts [never worry about mount again]

038 199 207 H - Repair aluminum thread failure by cutting a slot for a nut. Works wonderfully. Permanent Fix





full youtube videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_SO3SSK1RI

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Old July 6th, 2017, 02:11   #43
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^^ Cool idea!

If one can get the mount out that's a good way to go. I couldn't get mine out: rather, I refused to undo my new TB install to remove the mount- my first TB job and I was confident that I had the TB perfectly set (which it turned out it was) and didn't want to risk my luck in undoing everything.
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Old July 6th, 2017, 06:03   #44
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^^ Very good idea GallowayChicago. I may end up doing something similar on my next TB service
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Old July 6th, 2017, 12:34   #45
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I was able to get the 038-199-207-H passenger side motor mount off my 2000 ALH MK4 Golf 1.9L TDI only by removing the middle black Turbo intake tube (not the lower one coming from the intercooler), but the only other way is to remove the large Camshaft sprocket and this will require removal of the timing belt. By taking the time to remove the black turbo intake I did not have to mess with the Timing, but it was a game of twister. Luckily I actually caught the mount just before it was going to fail.Lots of aluminum shavings and a 1/4" gap was seen on both bolts. These little diesels are powerful and really hard on all three motor mount dampeners.

The real trick in doing this repair was grinding down the nuts with the top-hat rings down so that they both had a key that stopped them from being able to rotate. Once done I tightened the assembly nuts and bolts and filled the slots with black RTV. This would reduce the likelihood of oxidation to either the aluminum or the steel nuts. Final note: when I did the on car assembly I used black RTV again as thread-lock. While it is wet it acts like a lubricant but when it hardens it holds the bolt and fills the voids where water can degrade the fitting.

By doing this you change the raw physics of how you are securing your motor mount. You are going from Pulling to Clamping. I call the OEM setup Pulling because the force that can be exerted on the aluminum threads is much less than the force that can be sustained by the all steel nuts.


note: To remove the upper black tube from the turbo you need good light and a hoes-clamp puller. Credit: someone else's photo.
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