Tennessee researcher changing the face of fuel economy

Bolt-on retrofit hybrid system?

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/doityourself-hybrid-20120725-22pc7.html

Interesting. All sorts of questions are raised, such as, how long would it really last, is it designed to the same level of reliability as the rest of the car, etc. Wouldn't want to spend $3k and find it only lasts one-two years.

The notion of topping the batteries off at home is nice. Not everyone has the capacity for the high-end charging station. But I could see a need for a switch on the dashboard that allows fast(ish) charge mode while driving--if one is driving longer distances and needs the batteries topped off before getting home, that is. You know, get on the highway, then let the batteries top off.

Looks like trouble adding power to wheels that weren't designed for it. Would be interesting to see a diesel hybrid running around and what it could do. A 03 Golf 5-speed with after market hybrid system???

Wonder how many people would be interested in losing 80% of their trunk space and $3k from their bank accounts? I'm also betting the $3k is for the system alone with labor not included.

I also see a trend were the good hybrid cars are designed around the system with weight reductions and low wind resistance (Prius/insight) and cars with the hybrid system being added to existing models don't seem produce results worth the added cost(Camry, Civic, Sonata, Highlander)

I would buy it for 3k. It would really help in low traction situations, and I bet the 0-60 would be much improved also.

If I had a pure-commuter car, and if the $3k saved me $5k over say 5 years, I'd go for it. OTOH, as you pointed out, I wouldn't want to lose trunk space in a non-commuter; and it's a bit of a gamble until it the payoff period is hit.

Interesting though on the impact on other suspension bits.

supton said:

Not everyone has the capacity for the high-end charging station.

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The electric car market will eventually migrate to the cars having on-board chargers that plug into either 120 or 240 volt sources. *Nearly* everyone can have a 240 volt socket at home in their garage, or on the side of their house facing the driveway.

The 480 volt quick chargers will indeed be special things you have to buy or find in public.

Good idea , but how about this.........

Make the unit so that the batteries and controllers can be removed easily(unplugged and removed) if you need the extra space for Cargo(vacation etc.)

It would also be nice to be able to have just the Hub Motors along with a Bigger Alternator and an extra 12 volt battery. This could be used just for emergency purposes. eg. Getting out of a snow covered driveway.

Did they lose the rear brakes with that rig?

Ski in NC said:

Did they lose the rear brakes with that rig?

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I imagine the hub motors would make much better brakes than the drums it came with.

I'll be watching this and waiting to put in the first order!



EDIT-In the above picture it looks like the coils are outside the drum, and the brakes are retained.

TDIMeister said:

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/doityourself-hybrid-20120725-22pc7.html

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Pretty awesome idea ....... take a new Jetta S, add something like this ......; take a crappy mpg 1/2 pickup truck ..... hmm

thebigarniedog said:

Pretty awesome idea ....... take a new Jetta S, add something like this ......; take a crappy mpg 1/2 pickup truck ..... hmm

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A truck is considerably easier to convert. They already make electric motors that bolt to the transmission tail-shaft, and then a shorten drive shaft is bolted to the electric motor.

http://www.fuelefficiency.org/?q=node/39

This could be done to any vehicle using junk parts and rolls of roofing nails. Good Idea!

It sounds like they are doing it right, in that it is used while accelerating, which is using the most fuel. It only takes a few horsepower to maintain cruising speed anyway.

I've often thought that a large capacitor system of power storage would be better than batteries. Use the engine for cruising, and the capacitors for starting and accelerating. The capacitors would be recharged while cruising and stopping so they will be ready for the next cycle.

For maximizing fuel efficiency, it's usually counterproductive to "assist" the engine to operate at a lower load. An engine usually has the minimum BSFC for a given developed power near the full-load line. On a BSFC map, you want to shift operating points from areas of high BSFC (red, yellow, green) to regions of low BSFC (darkening shades of blue), which usually coincide with low RPMs and high loads. That's exactly how taller gearing works to give better mileage.

Ski in NC said:

Did they lose the rear brakes with that rig?

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Unless an almost full cargo load is carried in the rear, rear brakes are almost useless. The front brakes do 90% of the stopping. For most braking applications the regeneration can be used to slow the car until the service brakes are needed for that last little bit of stopping.

This almost looks like something a bloke could build himself. You need a flywheel with a pile of strong neodymium rare earth magnets mounted to it, a bunch of spools of magnet wire, and boom, you got yourself a rotor motor. Add some batteries, wiring, and control circuitry and you're done. Anybody out there trying to build something like this on their TDI?

@TDIMeister -- In that case, I'd think you'd just be shifting up a little sooner to keep the engine running at low RPM/high load.

Do TDIs stop injecting diesel when coasting down a hill in gear?

If the rotor motor has enough power to continue propelling the car down the road, wouldn't this look like the same thing as coasting down a hill (from the engine's point of view)? If so, diesel consumption should drop to zero once the rotor motor is doing all the work of keeping the car rolling. At least, until the battery bank goes dead from all the work of pushing the car AND pushing the coasting diesel engine.

Saab was playing around with this idea when they were still a viable company. Hybrid and 4WD in one shot. I could see using it in the winter months when mileage on the diesel takes a hit for the anti-gel additives and for extra traction. And the regen braking, assuming that comes with it, might be a nicer decel option in slippery situations.

MrMopar said:

The electric car market will eventually migrate to the cars having on-board chargers that plug into either 120 or 240 volt sources. *Nearly* everyone can have a 240 volt socket at home in their garage, or on the side of their house facing the driveway.
The 480 volt quick chargers will indeed be special things you have to buy or find in public.

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That's what Tesla has done. 110V onboard charger is standard. Upgrade to 220V onboard charger. Also possible to upgrade to twin chargers.

If you've got a 220V circuit for a dryer, it can be extended into the garage very cheaply. Just don't try and dry clothes and charge the car at the same time.

zilym said:

This almost looks like something a bloke could build himself. You need a flywheel with a pile of strong neodymium rare earth magnets mounted to it, a bunch of spools of magnet wire, and boom, you got yourself a rotor motor. Add some batteries, wiring, and control circuitry and you're done. Anybody out there trying to build something like this on their TDI?
@TDIMeister -- In that case, I'd think you'd just be shifting up a little sooner to keep the engine running at low RPM/high load.
Do TDIs stop injecting diesel when coasting down a hill in gear?
If the rotor motor has enough power to continue propelling the car down the road, wouldn't this look like the same thing as coasting down a hill (from the engine's point of view)? If so, diesel consumption should drop to zero once the rotor motor is doing all the work of keeping the car rolling. At least, until the battery bank goes dead from all the work of pushing the car AND pushing the coasting diesel engine.

Click to expand...

Ideally you would want the ECU to sync with the electric motor controller to provide power and braking at the right times. That would be hard to do. Maybe a dual action pedal way over to the left that retards when you press on the heal, and accelerates when you press on the toe.
Craig Carmichael at turquoiseenergy.com , has been working on this for years, but has had problems with heat and getting enough torque. Also, the metal in the brake parts disrupts the flux you are trying to create with the electric wheel motor.

I could see going in a slightly different direction: single high speed motor with reduction and differential, in rear center of car, with light duty cv axles going to rear wheels. Have a clutch (??) to open to reduce parasitic loads at cruising. Then motor/diff/clutch can be low tech/low cost. No significant weight added to wheels.

You get the typical hybrid benefits, with added plus of mild 4wd.

Whether to integrate that with a DC gen on engine??

This would take more engineering and machining than the wheel mounted stuff, but the benefits would be significant.

Just thinkin' aloud...

^ that's the tack PSA took. Easy to modularise...

A group of Tennessee researchers and graduate students are changing the face of fuel economy. They are designing a unique, plug-in hybrid retrofit kit that works on any vehicle on the road, potentially saving those who make the investment 50-100 percent on in town fuel costs.

The system is compact using electromagnets which fit between the back wheels and the brakes.

....

Perry says other inventors have come up with similar solutions but they’ve been expensive and force mechanics to alter the car. His solution is completely unique. It doesn’t change anything about the vehicle. The electromagnetic magnets are placed in the brake system and the battery pack sits in the trunk of the car. It’s the first of a kind.

The gas mileage while driving below 40 mph could improve by 50-100 percent and Perry is aiming for a price of about $3,000.

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/11/17/tennessee-researcher-changing-face-fuel-economy/

Sounds like this one is general enough that it could be added to any vehicle, including one of our TDIs. Of course with our higher mileage to start with it might be chasing diminishing returns, but it sounds interesting.

Dave

This project needs to be done with crowdfunding. While I hope that a venture capitalist, or OEM parts maker would pick up this technology and mass produce it, I don't think the big money climate is willing to help millions of existing cars turn into ultra efficient hybrids. I could see people pulling out their tired oil soaked IC engines, and just using the car as a low speed in town EV.