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Old April 13th, 2013, 04:34   #16
DanG144
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I have started my BEW with the cam sensor unplugged. It just takes a few more revs to start. Not sure why you had your experience Frank. The BEW can run on crank sensor alone. The BRM can run on either the crank or the cam sensor.

What can happen is if the Cam and crank sensor disagree, the ECU can get confused on the timing and refuse to run on either the BEW or the BRM. I have had one PD that would not start until I unplugged the cam sensor. Leaving it plugged in caused more problems.

Yes Poopie is right on changing out the sensor. It is a pain but can be done with the belt in place.

If the cam sensor and crank sensor disagree too much, and the ECU meets certain criteria (who knows how the logic is set up?) so it can tell which is in error, then it will change block 43 field 2 (torsion=cam to crank timing) to a default 0.0, throwing out the cam sensor input, and continue to run.

What really can foul it up is a constantly changing relationship between the crank and cam. One PD came to me barely limping along, running very poorly. The problem was excessive slack in the TB, causing rapidly and constantly varying relationships between the cam and crank.

So jettasetta, I would always replace the TB on a car I bought used, unless I knew for a fact that all the proper parts were replaced and knew the source of the parts, and who did the work. This just makes sense, to avoid a crashed head from a TB failure. I have had three cars come to me with very very cheap chinese copy timing belts on them, bought from prothe ( a very cheap parts place out of NC), one of these belts had broken in less than 10k, the others were very very close to breaking - badly cracked at each belt tooth.

In your case it is possible for this to also cause the code you are getting if there is slack in the TB.

This code is usually most likely from bad wiring, then bad sensors - either crank or cam, if the timing is properly set and the belt tight. In the ECUs logic the cause has been attributed to the cam sensor, but remember that it sees this as implausible because it compares it to the crank sensor.

Last edited by DanG144; April 13th, 2013 at 05:00.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 06:53   #17
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I have seen a few posts from people with BEWs that said the camshaft position sensor being bad would cause longer than typical cranking but once running the engine would continue to do so. I do know that without the crankshaft speed sensor the BEW engine will not run. I had an intermittent stalling issue on my 04 BEW Jetta mostly at idle that turned out to be a bad crankshaft speed sensor. The connectors for the 2 sensors (crankshaft & camshaft) are right next to each other. There is a posted repair in here on a grounding issue for the camshaft position sensor that invloves going under the cowl below the windshield wipers, removing the electrical harness from the ECU, removing the electrical insulation from this wiring harness, singling out one of the wires that goes to the camshaft sensor and then adding a separate ground wire to the harness (need to get an inexpensive test wire from VW to connect into the harness). Having played with trying to optimize my "torsion value" for improved fuel economy; I also know that adjusting this can create long cranking to start & rough idle. I also agree completely with Frank06's assesment (he has a thread tittles "the problem with setting torsion value")that the optimum value for this will vary from car to car.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 07:56   #18
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It only means you should install a new cam position sensor.
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Old April 19th, 2013, 17:22   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG144 View Post
I have started my BEW with the cam sensor unplugged. It just takes a few more revs to start. Not sure why you had your experience Frank. The BEW can run on crank sensor alone. The BRM can run on either the crank or the cam sensor.

What can happen is if the Cam and crank sensor disagree, the ECU can get confused on the timing and refuse to run on either the BEW or the BRM. I have had one PD that would not start until I unplugged the cam sensor. Leaving it plugged in caused more problems.

Yes Poopie is right on changing out the sensor. It is a pain but can be done with the belt in place.

If the cam sensor and crank sensor disagree too much, and the ECU meets certain criteria (who knows how the logic is set up?) so it can tell which is in error, then it will change block 43 field 2 (torsion=cam to crank timing) to a default 0.0, throwing out the cam sensor input, and continue to run.

What really can foul it up is a constantly changing relationship between the crank and cam. One PD came to me barely limping along, running very poorly. The problem was excessive slack in the TB, causing rapidly and constantly varying relationships between the cam and crank.

So jettasetta, I would always replace the TB on a car I bought used, unless I knew for a fact that all the proper parts were replaced and knew the source of the parts, and who did the work. This just makes sense, to avoid a crashed head from a TB failure. I have had three cars come to me with very very cheap chinese copy timing belts on them, bought from prothe ( a very cheap parts place out of NC), one of these belts had broken in less than 10k, the others were very very close to breaking - badly cracked at each belt tooth.

In your case it is possible for this to also cause the code you are getting if there is slack in the TB.

This code is usually most likely from bad wiring, then bad sensors - either crank or cam, if the timing is properly set and the belt tight. In the ECUs logic the cause has been attributed to the cam sensor, but remember that it sees this as implausible because it compares it to the crank sensor.
Thanks for this help. Please excuse my delay. I checked for which belt was installed It looks to be a Gates T333. I may replace it when I to the roller and tensioner and one use bolts that were not replaced. I don't know which water pump was used, but the coolant looks orange. I would like to resolve the Cam sensor fault.
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Old April 29th, 2013, 14:43   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pruzink View Post
There is a posted repair in here on a grounding issue for the camshaft position sensor that invloves going under the cowl below the windshield wipers, removing the electrical harness from the ECU, removing the electrical insulation from this wiring harness, singling out one of the wires that goes to the camshaft sensor and then adding a separate ground wire to the harness (need to get an inexpensive test wire from VW to connect into the harness).
I haven't spotted this guidance yet.
So it seems the 2004 was recalled, but not the 2005. It could be wiring or either the cam or crank sensor. Any way to tell which?
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Old August 25th, 2013, 09:13   #21
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Have you figured out the issue with your cam sensor? Can anyone provide the link to the thread showing the procedure for grounding the cam sensor wire?
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Old August 25th, 2013, 09:44   #22
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Befor you replace the cam position sensor you should verifi that you do not have damaged (chaffed) wire/s.
Here is a link on how I repaired this problem:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...28&postcount=1
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Last edited by Herm TDI; August 25th, 2013 at 09:49.
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Old August 25th, 2013, 09:58   #23
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A few words of caution on replacing the cam position sensor (CPS):
Once the TB cover is rempoved I would urge you to pack a few clean rags in and around the Timing Belt path. These rags will prevent the small CPS bolt from falling down into the TB path. Should you drop this bolt into the TB path it will take several hours of work to retreave it.
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Last edited by Herm TDI; August 25th, 2013 at 11:06.
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Old August 25th, 2013, 10:54   #24
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Thank you for the info.
How did you locate the faulty wire?

Last edited by drywaller; August 25th, 2013 at 17:25.
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Old August 25th, 2013, 16:50   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drywaller View Post
Have you figured out the issue with your cam sensor? Can anyone provide the link to the thread showing the procedure for grounding the cam sensor wire?
No I had not and had to put this on the back burner because I've been having Laptop issues and do not have VCDS capability at the moment. Also, I went on vacation and have had to attend to completing AC repairs on my E36. Soon I am hoping to get my laptop and VCDS up and running so that I can return to the matter of addressing the TPS issue. To that end, you're reviving of this thread is certainly helpful and much appreciated. I'll be posting on my progress here once I can get back to it. Thanks again!


Additional thanks to Herm TDI as well for the guidance!


This group has made a huge difference in my ability navigate the TDI.
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Old August 25th, 2013, 17:30   #26
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Jettasetta, I will be following along to see your progress. I also second that about this site. Without the help of members here I for one would be completely lost.
It is also much help for those of us that have (very) limited places to troubleshoot/wrench.
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Old August 25th, 2013, 17:58   #27
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If anyone wants a "how-to" for replacing the cam sensor, we have one here
Fixmyvw.com/how-to-change-a-g40-cam-position-sensor-10-minute-job/
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Old January 9th, 2014, 22:56   #28
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so what is the verdict on fixing the "implausible signal" error from the camshaft sensor ?

Replace the sensor ?
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Old January 10th, 2014, 01:14   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newzboys View Post
If anyone wants a "how-to" for replacing the cam sensor, we have one here
Fixmyvw.com/how-to-change-a-g40-cam-position-sensor-10-minute-job/
Great write up, but it does look like you have a BEW, not a BRM like the OP was posting about. It would be great if you could indicate in your write up, exactly which engine it applies to.

I know both engines are very similar, but a newbie could be tripped up because he didn't know the write up he was working to isn't his exact engine.

Other than that, I really appreciate your commitment to the community. If it wasn't for Fred's, I would have probably destroyed my TDI a long time ago out of ignorance about these great cars "special needs".
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Old January 10th, 2014, 05:17   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri16V View Post
so what is the verdict on fixing the "implausible signal" error from the camshaft sensor ?

Replace the sensor ?
You can get that same DTC from a cam that is more than 5 degrees out from the crank sensor.

So the first thing I would do was examine the TB. Is it tensioned? No fuzz? Cam sprocket bolts tight? Cam not all the way at the end of the slot (which may be normal, but may also indicate it slipped behind its three small bolts.)

The second would be to examine the wiring connections. Check the resistances of the plug and jack. The numbers are posted somewhere here on the site. Or PM me and I will measure them again on my BEW.

The third would be to mechanically check the timing. (Or simply try to adjust the cam no more than 5 degrees - not exceeding slot travel.)

Remember the cam to crank angle (MVB4 field 4) reads zero when the cam and crank sensors disagree - it is a substituted value.

On a BEW I would also remove and clean my crank sensor - make sure it did not get a piece of metal on it's tip.
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