VW 507.00 vs ACEA for DPF life?

Jdragnfly · October 12th, 2012, 22:04

I have an '09 Jetta TDI CBEA and settled (confidently) on Amsoil Euro formula 5W-30 for the past several oil changes since 1) its 507.00 spec'd 2) my research convinced me its a great lubricant, and 3) its readily available to me at a decent price through my local independent VW parts place. Btw, I've lurked here long enough to be aware of Amsoil opinions in general, so I'm not trying to start anything

...

I recently had my oil cooler replaced under powertrain warranty (@54K) after discovering nasty tea colored coolant with rusty residue very similar to other threads here. My service tech, whom I trust from experience, saw the quart of Amsoil oil in my trunk and said that although he considered it an excellent oil for the engine, the fact that it was ACEA A3/B4 (and 1.5% sulfated ash content) rather than other C3 rated oils (0.6-0.8%), he was concerned about the life of my DPF. I emailed Amsoil to confirm the ash content in relation to my DPF concern, but they just replied that it was within VW 507.00 specs and, therefore, suitable.

Question: Is this significant/Should I be concerned? Should I not only be looking for a 507.00 spec oil, but especially for a C3 oil for the lower SAPS to protect my DPF? Also, can anyone confirm the Amsoil 1.5% ash figure I was quoted?

Thanks in advance.

JSWTDI09 · October 12th, 2012, 22:26

1.5% ash is much higher than any of the 507.00 oils I have seen. They are usually between 0.6% and 0.8%. Therefore this Amsoil oil is about double the "normal" ash content. I would only use oils that have either a VW507.00 approval or a Mercedes MB 229.51 approval.

Have Fun!

Don

DPM · October 12th, 2012, 23:26

Need a Cx rating...

TooSlick · October 12th, 2012, 23:38

Your service tech is misinformed. The ash content of the Amsoil product is 0.6% according to their tech services department. (I've been a registered dealer for over thirty years.)

TS

Jdragnfly · October 13th, 2012, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by TooSlick

Your service tech is misinformed. The ash content of the Amsoil product is 0.6% according to their tech services department. (I've been a registered dealer for over thirty years.)

TS

Well, this sounds just fine... Do you have a printed spec that shows this (or show me where to get this?) I searched and couldn't find it on Amsoil's site or elsewhere, and the reply they gave me failed to give an ash %.

If that's the case, then I'm done searching I think.

tdiatlast · October 13th, 2012, 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jdragnfly

...I recently had my oil cooler replaced under powertrain warranty (@54K) after discovering nasty tea colored coolant with rusty residue very similar to other threads here. ...

Would you mind posting your experience with the oil cooler replacement here:

Brown coating inside coolant hose (

1 2 3 4)
Could you please tell us more about this replacement? Did they determine the oil cooler was leaking? How did they decide it needed to be replaced?

Thanks. My car has rusty scale on my coolant hoses, and brownish coolant, and I'm coming up to 60k miles.

TooSlick · October 13th, 2012, 08:26

The ash content of the Amsoil 5w-30 European Formula is not called out on the spec sheet. However they're using an approved, VW 507.00 additive chemistry. In fact it's the same basic additive package used by several European oil companies, including Fuchs, LuberMoly and Motul. The additives that contribute to the ash level include Ca, Mg, Moly and Zinc (in the form of ZDDP).

An interesting point is that the previous VW 502.00/505.01 oils are also reduced ash formulations. These are loosely based on the generic "ACEA C3-10" specification, which requires ash to be 0.8% or less. The BMW LL-04 and MB 229.51 specifications are also based on the ACEA C3-10. VW/Audi have chosen to be even more restrictive when it comes to allowable ash levels in the VW 504/507 oils. The ones I've seen have ash contents of 0.6%-0.65%.

TS

Jdragnfly · October 18th, 2012, 09:17

Not being able to find anything in writing about the actual ash % and having no luck with email, I called the tech line at Amsoil and the rep refused to give me a number, saying simply that its unpublished. Why??? I like the oil, but DPF's are $$$. Guess I'm switching unless I get convinced otherwise.

truman · October 18th, 2012, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jdragnfly

Not being able to find anything in writing about the actual ash % and having no luck with email, I called the tech line at Amsoil and the rep refused to give me a number, saying simply that its unpublished. Why??? I like the oil, but DPF's are $$$. Guess I'm switching unless I get convinced otherwise.

It' weird that Amsoil doesn't want to reveal the number, but if TS says it's 0.6%, I see no reason why you can't trust that number.

WutGas? · October 18th, 2012, 09:34

Because TooSlick isn't going to pay for a new DPF. While I trust him on his number, I find it rather odd that Amsoil won't state the ash content.

Jdragnfly · October 18th, 2012, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by truman

It' weird that Amsoil doesn't want to reveal the number, but if TS says it's 0.6%, I see no reason why you can't trust that number.

I'd love to trust it, too. I've lurked here for a long time and he seems like a stand up guy. However..

TooSlick · October 18th, 2012, 13:06

That was a direct quote from their technical services department in a phone conversation I had. The low ash content is why this formulation has a TBN of only 5.8 (reduced calcium and magnesium, "organo-metallic" detergents). It also has a low level of zinc, which contributes 20%-25% of the total ash content. Finally, it uses boron as a supplemental anti-wear additive (which is ash and sulphur free), rather than moly, which contains both. In other words, the additive chemistry is fully consistent with a very low level of ash, phosphorus and sulphur.

TS

Lee_Taylor · October 21st, 2012, 07:48

Quote:

That was a direct quote from their technical services department in a phone conversation I had.

I believe the legal term for this is hearsay. I think I would prefer to have something in writing.

listerone · October 21st, 2012, 09:26

My attitude is...why take a chance? Mobil 1 ESP is widely available and,particularly when on sale,is relatively cheap.

kydsid · October 21st, 2012, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by TooSlick

That was a direct quote from their technical services department in a phone conversation I had. The low ash content is why this formulation has a TBN of only 5.8 (reduced calcium and magnesium, "organo-metallic" detergents). It also has a low level of zinc, which contributes 20%-25% of the total ash content. Finally, it uses boron as a supplemental anti-wear additive (which is ash and sulphur free), rather than moly, which contains both. In other words, the additive chemistry is fully consistent with a very low level of ash, phosphorus and sulphur.

TS

So why is it that they will tell their dealers, as reported by yourself and another dealer over at BITOG, and will refuse to tell their customers, myself and evidently others in this thread.

I have used Amsoil for a decade in other vehicles. When I found out how hard it was to get a 507 I turned back to Amsoil. But their refusal to give me any answers when I questioned turned me to another manufacturer who would.

Simple issue is too me; if I have to use an exotic oil type to protect my vehicle I want a company willing to state in writing what the properties of their oil is otherwise I will wait for other people to be the test subjects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by listerone

My attitude is...why take a chance? Mobil 1 ESP is widely available and,particularly when on sale,is relatively cheap.

I attempted to turn back to them because over 6 months of ownership I have so far been unable to get anyone to honor a sale price on M1 ESP Formula 5W30. At regular retail prices either local or mail order M1 is more expensive than I can get the Amsoil and several other 507 approved oils.