www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums TDIFAQ Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2014 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You



Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Fuels & Lubricants

Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 12th, 2012, 22:04   #1
Jdragnfly
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Default VW 507.00 vs ACEA for DPF life?

I have an '09 Jetta TDI CBEA and settled (confidently) on Amsoil Euro formula 5W-30 for the past several oil changes since 1) its 507.00 spec'd 2) my research convinced me its a great lubricant, and 3) its readily available to me at a decent price through my local independent VW parts place. Btw, I've lurked here long enough to be aware of Amsoil opinions in general, so I'm not trying to start anything ...

I recently had my oil cooler replaced under powertrain warranty (@54K) after discovering nasty tea colored coolant with rusty residue very similar to other threads here. My service tech, whom I trust from experience, saw the quart of Amsoil oil in my trunk and said that although he considered it an excellent oil for the engine, the fact that it was ACEA A3/B4 (and 1.5% sulfated ash content) rather than other C3 rated oils (0.6-0.8%), he was concerned about the life of my DPF. I emailed Amsoil to confirm the ash content in relation to my DPF concern, but they just replied that it was within VW 507.00 specs and, therefore, suitable.

Question: Is this significant/Should I be concerned? Should I not only be looking for a 507.00 spec oil, but especially for a C3 oil for the lower SAPS to protect my DPF? Also, can anyone confirm the Amsoil 1.5% ash figure I was quoted?

Thanks in advance.
Jdragnfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 22:26   #2
JSWTDI09
Veteran Member
 
JSWTDI09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Default

1.5% ash is much higher than any of the 507.00 oils I have seen. They are usually between 0.6% and 0.8%. Therefore this Amsoil oil is about double the "normal" ash content. I would only use oils that have either a VW507.00 approval or a Mercedes MB 229.51 approval.

Have Fun!

Don
__________________
2009 Jetta SportWagen TDI
Candy White/Anthracite; Build date: 01/16/09; Buy date: 02/09/09
Coveted Three Pedal Version, Big hole in roof
Dieselgeek Shortshifter & Panzer Plate (my favorite & my smartest mods)
2MicronTech Pure Flow and Contain Flow CR fuel system modifications
JSWTDI09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 23:26   #3
DPM
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Newtownards, N. Ireland
Fuel Economy: 38.5- 47 Forester, 49-55 Peugeot
Default

Need a Cx rating...
DPM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 23:38   #4
TooSlick
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Dixie
TDI(s): Audi 100S
Default

Your service tech is misinformed. The ash content of the Amsoil product is 0.6% according to their tech services department. (I've been a registered dealer for over thirty years.)

TS
TooSlick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2012, 00:42   #5
Jdragnfly
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooSlick View Post
Your service tech is misinformed. The ash content of the Amsoil product is 0.6% according to their tech services department. (I've been a registered dealer for over thirty years.)

TS
Well, this sounds just fine... Do you have a printed spec that shows this (or show me where to get this?) I searched and couldn't find it on Amsoil's site or elsewhere, and the reply they gave me failed to give an ash %.

If that's the case, then I'm done searching I think.
Jdragnfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2012, 04:37   #6
tdiatlast
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Arlington, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdragnfly View Post
...I recently had my oil cooler replaced under powertrain warranty (@54K) after discovering nasty tea colored coolant with rusty residue very similar to other threads here. ...
Would you mind posting your experience with the oil cooler replacement here:

Brown coating inside coolant hose ( 1 2 3 4)
Could you please tell us more about this replacement? Did they determine the oil cooler was leaking? How did they decide it needed to be replaced?

Thanks. My car has rusty scale on my coolant hoses, and brownish coolant, and I'm coming up to 60k miles.
__________________
2014 Passat TDI SEL DSG, White, Cornsilk, built 1/2014, purchased March 22, 2014
2009 JSW TDI DSG, Reflex Silver, Anthracite vinyl, built 11/2008, FrostHeater installed at 800miles purchased Jan 18, 2009

Last edited by tdiatlast; October 13th, 2012 at 04:43.
tdiatlast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2012, 08:26   #7
TooSlick
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Dixie
TDI(s): Audi 100S
Default

The ash content of the Amsoil 5w-30 European Formula is not called out on the spec sheet. However they're using an approved, VW 507.00 additive chemistry. In fact it's the same basic additive package used by several European oil companies, including Fuchs, LuberMoly and Motul. The additives that contribute to the ash level include Ca, Mg, Moly and Zinc (in the form of ZDDP).

An interesting point is that the previous VW 502.00/505.01 oils are also reduced ash formulations. These are loosely based on the generic "ACEA C3-10" specification, which requires ash to be 0.8% or less. The BMW LL-04 and MB 229.51 specifications are also based on the ACEA C3-10. VW/Audi have chosen to be even more restrictive when it comes to allowable ash levels in the VW 504/507 oils. The ones I've seen have ash contents of 0.6%-0.65%.

TS
TooSlick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2012, 09:17   #8
Jdragnfly
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Default

Not being able to find anything in writing about the actual ash % and having no luck with email, I called the tech line at Amsoil and the rep refused to give me a number, saying simply that its unpublished. Why??? I like the oil, but DPF's are $$$. Guess I'm switching unless I get convinced otherwise.
Jdragnfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2012, 09:28   #9
truman
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: columbia,MO,usa
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdragnfly View Post
Not being able to find anything in writing about the actual ash % and having no luck with email, I called the tech line at Amsoil and the rep refused to give me a number, saying simply that its unpublished. Why??? I like the oil, but DPF's are $$$. Guess I'm switching unless I get convinced otherwise.
It' weird that Amsoil doesn't want to reveal the number, but if TS says it's 0.6%, I see no reason why you can't trust that number.
truman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2012, 09:34   #10
WutGas?
Veteran Member
 
WutGas?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Oklahoma City
Default

Because TooSlick isn't going to pay for a new DPF. While I trust him on his number, I find it rather odd that Amsoil won't state the ash content.
__________________
WutGas? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2012, 09:37   #11
Jdragnfly
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by truman View Post
It' weird that Amsoil doesn't want to reveal the number, but if TS says it's 0.6%, I see no reason why you can't trust that number.
I'd love to trust it, too. I've lurked here for a long time and he seems like a stand up guy. However..
Jdragnfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2012, 13:06   #12
TooSlick
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Dixie
TDI(s): Audi 100S
Default

That was a direct quote from their technical services department in a phone conversation I had. The low ash content is why this formulation has a TBN of only 5.8 (reduced calcium and magnesium, "organo-metallic" detergents). It also has a low level of zinc, which contributes 20%-25% of the total ash content. Finally, it uses boron as a supplemental anti-wear additive (which is ash and sulphur free), rather than moly, which contains both. In other words, the additive chemistry is fully consistent with a very low level of ash, phosphorus and sulphur.

TS
TooSlick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2012, 07:48   #13
Lee_Taylor
Veteran Member
 
Lee_Taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kent, England
Default

Quote:
That was a direct quote from their technical services department in a phone conversation I had.
I believe the legal term for this is hearsay. I think I would prefer to have something in writing.
__________________
you can't make a machine idiot proof, the idiots are just too powerful......Oilhammer
Lee_Taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2012, 09:26   #14
listerone
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Connecticut
Fuel Economy: 45mpg (highway)
Default

My attitude is...why take a chance? Mobil 1 ESP is widely available and,particularly when on sale,is relatively cheap.
__________________
Current: 2014 BMW 328d
Previous: 2011 MB E350 Bluetec
Previous: 2009 BMW 335d

listerone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2012, 10:51   #15
kydsid
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Texas
TDI(s): 2012 Passat
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooSlick View Post
That was a direct quote from their technical services department in a phone conversation I had. The low ash content is why this formulation has a TBN of only 5.8 (reduced calcium and magnesium, "organo-metallic" detergents). It also has a low level of zinc, which contributes 20%-25% of the total ash content. Finally, it uses boron as a supplemental anti-wear additive (which is ash and sulphur free), rather than moly, which contains both. In other words, the additive chemistry is fully consistent with a very low level of ash, phosphorus and sulphur.

TS

So why is it that they will tell their dealers, as reported by yourself and another dealer over at BITOG, and will refuse to tell their customers, myself and evidently others in this thread.

I have used Amsoil for a decade in other vehicles. When I found out how hard it was to get a 507 I turned back to Amsoil. But their refusal to give me any answers when I questioned turned me to another manufacturer who would.

Simple issue is too me; if I have to use an exotic oil type to protect my vehicle I want a company willing to state in writing what the properties of their oil is otherwise I will wait for other people to be the test subjects.



Quote:
Originally Posted by listerone View Post
My attitude is...why take a chance? Mobil 1 ESP is widely available and,particularly when on sale,is relatively cheap.

I attempted to turn back to them because over 6 months of ownership I have so far been unable to get anyone to honor a sale price on M1 ESP Formula 5W30. At regular retail prices either local or mail order M1 is more expensive than I can get the Amsoil and several other 507 approved oils.
__________________
504/507 Oil retail source list - http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=360912

Last edited by kydsid; October 21st, 2012 at 10:54.
kydsid is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Castrol SLX 505.01 vs. Long Life 507.00 for PD SootFoot Fuels & Lubricants 140 February 28th, 2009 16:38
Pennzoil PLATINUM 5W-30 LONG LIFE VW 507 Racer007 Fuels & Lubricants 16 December 5th, 2008 08:36
Best price for 507.00 long life ???? doonboggle Fuels & Lubricants 17 September 1st, 2008 19:31
VW Longlife III 507.00 shelf life robbinsresort Fuels & Lubricants 13 January 24th, 2008 09:02


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2014
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2013, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.17421 seconds with 10 queries
[Output: 127.39 Kb. compressed to 106.31 Kb. by saving 21.08 Kb. (16.55%)]