anyone try the cx racing tdi fmic

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
You might want to consider how small the "crash bar" is. Also, the piping from the turbo to the core looks really small.
 

VWBeamer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Location
GA
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
Looks good to me, I would try it. 2.5 inch pipe looks like. You do give up your crash bar.

Larger pipe is better, those that think different need to study the effects pressure drop across a 90 degree bend. 2 inch straight pipe would be great, but when you start bending it then it becomes a restriction.

Some say a 2 or 3 PSI pressure drop is no big deal, the turbo will just spin harder to to produce the requested boost. The problem is now the turbo is working harder, producing even more heat and making the whole system less efficient. Larger piping will produce cooler intake temps. Cooler = more HP.

The 2.5 inch pipe does not cause a noticeable lag, and can easily be fitted. The extra cost is negligible. There is no reason NOT to run 2.5 intercooler piping.
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
There is no reason NOT to run 2.5 intercooler piping.
Sure there is, these engines don't put out even close to enough cfm to make use of a 2.5in pipe.. And mandrel bends on a 2in pipe are super smooth, we aren't talking crush/bent pipes here, lol.
 

VWBeamer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Location
GA
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
Let's run your wagon against mine. just to see if makes a difference.
 

88.5sami

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2011
Location
ns canada
TDI
2003 jetta
2.5 would be snug going up to the egr from the cooler i would think... i am not to worried about the crash bar.. also have a vnt17 running just under 20psi right now... plan to get re tune and more injector later, cant see 2.5" pipe being to big...

thanks for all the help so far.. has hoping someone has tried it...
 

dieseleux

Théoricien -TDIClub Contributor
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Location
Pas assez loin pour vider ma tank!
TDI
Jetta TDI 02
All people are afraid of having too small tube ... its too rare the person who measures the pressure drop!
Bigger is better... no, the right size is compromise of restriction flow, because flow in a pipe make always a rectriction, too big is loss of space, loss of money for ridiculous flow gain.
If turbo output are 1.75", intake are 2"... why put 2.5" pipe between!
A bad quality intercooler scrap easely your bigger pipe gain.
A simple calculation gives you an idea of ​​the right size, a simple test with gauge give you a confirmation of calculation.

http://www.pipeflowcalculations.com/airflow/index.htm

At 5000rpm (Ve:85%) 30psi intake=377ft3/min of air (very big TDI setup end of range!)
2" pipe 20ft long = 1.029psi drop
2.25" pipe 20ft long = 0.553psi drop
2.5" pipe 20ft long = 0.321psi drop
2.75" pipe 20ft long = 0.197psi drop
3" pipe 20ft long = 0.127psi drop

At 2500rpm (Ve:85%) 30psi intake=188ft3/min of air (very big TDI setup at spool up!)
2" pipe 20ft long = 0.261psi drop
2.25" pipe 20ft long = 0.144psi drop
2.5" pipe 20ft long = 0.085psi drop

At 2000rpm (Ve:85%) 15psi intake=106ft3/min of air (stock daily use)
2" pipe 20ft long = 0.088psi drop
2.25 pipe 20ft long = 0.049psi drop
2.5 pipe 20ft long = 0.029psi drop

Air temp 25c, intercooler eff:70% and 0.5psi drop (not2fast turbo calculator)
A take 20ft straight tube because the calculator dont take elbow!


Good reference to see how elbow and reducer make restriction.
http://www.wpb-radon.com/Piping_pressure_drop.html



Dieseleux
 
Last edited:

ryanp

Vendor
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Location
Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK
TDI
Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
I've tested pressure drop on an intercooler setup we made on an ibiza Mk4 using 2.25" pipework and an ebay intercooler, less than 1psi from Turbo to intake.
 

TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
Found this on a Honda forum.. Pretty useful info about pipe size vs air-speed and CFM..



.4 Mach (~304mph) is the point at which air becomes turbulent and losses in efficiency start to occur exponentially. The key is to stay under that speed. You want to use the smallest piping possible that still flows enough to meet your needs.

2" piping
1.57 x 2 = 3.14 sq in
300 cfm = 156 mph = 0.20 mach
400 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
500 cfm = 261 mph = 0.34 mach
585 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


2.25" piping
3.9740625 sq in = 1.98703125 x 2
300 cfm = 123 mph = 0.16 mach
400 cfm = 164 mph = 0.21 mach
500 cfm = 205 mph = 0.26 mach
600 cfm = 247 mph = 0.32 mach
700 cfm = 288 mph = 0.37 mach
740 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


2.5" piping
4.90625 sq in = 2.453125 x 2
300 cfm = 100 mph = 0.13 mach
400 cfm = 133 mph = 0.17 mach
500 cfm = 166 mph = 0.21 mach
600 cfm = 200 mph = 0.26 mach
700 cfm = 233 mph = 0.30 mach
800 cfm = 266 mph = 0.34 mach
900 cfm = 300 mph = 0.39 mach
913 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


2.75" piping
5.9365625 sq in = 2.96828125 x 2
300 cfm = 82 mph = 0.10 mach
400 cfm = 110 mph = 0.14 mach
500 cfm = 137 mph = 0.17 mach
600 cfm = 165 mph = 0.21 mach
700 cfm = 192 mph = 0.25 mach
800 cfm = 220 mph = 0.28 mach
900 cfm = 248 mph = 0.32 mach
1000 cfm = 275 mph = 0.36 mach
1100 cfm max = 303 mph = 0.40 mach


3.0" piping
7.065 sq in = 3.5325 x 2
300 cfm = 69 mph = 0.09 mach
400 cfm = 92 mph = 0.12 mach
500 cfm = 115 mph = 0.15 mach
600 cfm = 138 mph = 0.18 mach
700 cfm = 162 mph = 0.21 mach
800 cfm = 185 mph = 0.24 mach
900 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
1000 cfm = 231 mph = 0.30 mach
1100 cfm = 254 cfm = 0.33 mach
1200 cfm = 277 mph = 0.36 mach
1300 cfm max= 301 mph = 0.39 mach
 

VWBeamer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Location
GA
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
Ya'll are pretty smart, tell me how a 90 degree bend affects things?
 

TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
My intake valves open 11mm, and the head is heavily ported, so it needs a little more air than a standard TDI to say the least..

I ran into a problem and had to put a stock ALH intake manifold back on the car for a week or so, and it felt like someone tossed an anchor behind the car over 3000rpm...
 

rocketeer928

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Location
Enfield, Connecticut
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS TDI 5-speed
I would really be concerned about giving up the metal bumper. I also wanted my inlet and outlet piping to be on the same side, so I chose to go with the APR Tuned FMIC, which retains the bumper. Yes, it's double the cost and there is a core charge, but to me it was worth it.

If interested, here's the link for the FMIC on my Jetta: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3177100&postcount=532
 

v8 coupe

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Location
bloomington, mn
TDI
09 rabbit 2.5L Gas
I plan on running a Cx racing cor modified to fit my car. core specs out at 24" by 12" by 4" this will fit behind the stock core bar (barely) I will be cutting for clearance and then welding in new material to keep a good deal of the orginal strength in it. I man add some material to the front where the foam would be and shave it down to keep front frame rigidity.

The APR FMIC is a nice piece don't get me wrong, but it's a lot of money! I will likely have less then 500 into IC with piping and exhuast system!
 

mlemorie

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Location
Romulus Michigan
TDI
2004 Jetta
I loooooovvvve that APR unit, but I cant justify that amount of money. Id also like to keep a stock sized valence if possible, I want to switch over to the 4 motion one here soon. I know Im going to have to get creative with piping, but I also want to keep my lower fog lights. I have always thought that having a pipe sticking through the bumper there looked kind of tacky, and that is another reason I like the APR unit.

I really REALLY do not like losing the crash bar with this CX unit. Too many deer around here to not have it. Im also not super fond of the dual pass setup but thats just me. More options are always a plus though, Im just picky lol.
 

v8 coupe

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Location
bloomington, mn
TDI
09 rabbit 2.5L Gas
Another option I'm looking into that that I've seen on imports and some older germ cars is build the IC piping into thte crash bar as a integrated unit. Means little to no cutting of the bumper you should be able to retain the fogs and if the IC is mounted correctly little to no clearance issues would arrise.
 

mlemorie

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Location
Romulus Michigan
TDI
2004 Jetta
I have thought about doing that myself, I havent had time to get behind my crash bar and see what kind of room there is near the mounting bolt. I fear I would have to cut open the crash bar at that spot to have the clearance Id need for the pipe, either that or squish the pipe down and cause a restriction. Someone here wouldnt happen to have that dimension handy would they?
 

VWBeamer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Location
GA
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
There is bracing inside the crash bar that would have to be cut out. The metal is very strong and extremly hard to cut with a saw. If you had a plasma cutter maybe.

A 2 inch pipe would fit IIRC. Rumor is a 2 inch pipe will be enough, but I like 2.5.
 

mlemorie

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Location
Romulus Michigan
TDI
2004 Jetta
For a short section like that I think a 2.0 would probably be okay, and then bring the rest back to 2.25-2.5. I know how hard that crash bar is, it killed a few drill bits while I was trying to drill the holes to mount my fog light ballasts lol, definitely a strong piece.
 
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