www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2014 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You



Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014)

VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) Discussions area for A6/MkVI (2010-2014) Golf and Golf Wagons (Jetta Sportwagon in the USA).

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 10th, 2012, 08:13   #31
Lyman601
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cape May, NJ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by about2buyTDI View Post
I'm the OP. To answer some of the questions that were asked...
I like to keep my cars for a relatively long time. But my wife and I do tend to drive a lot. We each average about 25k to 30k per year. That is why I'm looking for a car that gets excellent MPG.
We currently have 2 vehicles, a Sienna 170k and a GMC Sierra 102k. The GMC is a diesel and I intend to keep it for a long, long time. Previously, the longest I ever kept a car was our Nissan Pathfinder, 185k. The only reason I sold that is that the front end dipped when braking and we had a new born that I did not want to risk with a rollover.
I don't expect to be able to keep a car for 300k without putting some money into it but I don't think one should expect to have to put significant money into a car prior to 120k.
We plan to use the JSW for longer trips (we are not selling either of our other vehicles) and commuting to work (we each average 150mi round trip). So, the JSW will primarily see highway driving.
After I made my original post and realized I put 350k as my desired longevity, I thought I was being a bit unreasonable, but then again, why not be an optimist. If I were to give into more pessimistic tendencies, I would not buy this car. But to let fear get the better of me would mean missing out on what I expect to be a good deal of enjoyment from this car. I took one for a test drive yesterday and took a few corners at 60mph (at least that is what my son said. I was looking at the road, getting into the ride). What a pleasure to have a practical family vehicle that can still provide a thrill.
So, given the above, I am serious about keeping this car for at least 300k and saving a ton of money on fuel in the mean time!
I just bought one, 2012 jetta sports wagon, 810 miles.
So i dont get it, there are two types of TDI drivers it seems, people who like the power and mpg and people who think they can go forever like the old MB diesel used to. Like the 240d and 300tdo. What you guys are saying is that a VW 2.0 TDI with all its innovation is either no better or worse than a common Jap/ U.S. gas engine.
Well I guess i bought the wrong car, I should have got a peterbuilt Semi tractor lol.
Lyman601 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10th, 2012, 08:16   #32
Lyman601
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cape May, NJ
Default

just took delivery, I love this car! but I will say this I fear I will be a bit disillusioned about longevity and durability.
Lyman601 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10th, 2012, 08:23   #33
Lyman601
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cape May, NJ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wutbürger View Post
Nobody in the U.S. can attest to 350K+ out of a VW CR TDI; a few have hit over 100K in a mostly trouble free fashion- the CR TDI's are significantly more complex (for instance a few members have started having issues with their diesel particulate filter "DPF"). I'm not saying you'll have issues- all cars are different- but just know that if things do go wrong, they are typically expensive to repair still on the CR TDI's given the lack of aftermarket solutions for these motors and their auxiliary parts/devices.

On the MPG front, you'll easily hit that if you do a lot of highway driving- my Golf clocked 43-46mpg, every tank without question, with the 6M until the HPFP want kaboom. Great car, great fun, great mileage, but I couldn't stand the thought of another $8,000 repair bill out of warranty.

I wish you the best and enjoy your new ride!
I had a friend of mine who filed a lemon law suit against VW after less than 20000 miles because he had to replace his EGR valve 4 times, really...I know this is a fluke but is this a quality control problem of is it the way he drove it or what?
Lyman601 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10th, 2012, 18:58   #34
pknopp
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: WV
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
We'll see what happens. I hope you guys are right. I also think that if an owner faces a failed turbo and DPF simultaneously they may walk away instead of spending $5-7K on parts and labor. And when the clutches go in the DSG, well...

You can't compare these cars to a Powerstroke, or even an ALH or AHU. They really are unknown territory.
I am sure that your quote applies to many owners but these are factory replacement prices.

A junkyard DSG or reman prices done outside of the dealership would bring those costs way down.

For me, I couldn't imagine forking out the money for a new DSG installed at a dealership on a car with 250,000 miles. A junkyard one done at a reliable shop or in my garage? Sure.
pknopp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10th, 2012, 19:01   #35
pknopp
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: WV
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyman601 View Post
I just bought one, 2012 jetta sports wagon, 810 miles.
So i dont get it, there are two types of TDI drivers it seems, people who like the power and mpg and people who think they can go forever like the old MB diesel used to. Like the 240d and 300tdo. What you guys are saying is that a VW 2.0 TDI with all its innovation is either no better or worse than a common Jap/ U.S. gas engine.
Well I guess i bought the wrong car, I should have got a peterbuilt Semi tractor lol.
We went on a chartered trip this weekend. I happened to look over at the miles on the bus. (it was diesel) 410,000 miles.
pknopp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 04:42   #36
IndigoBlueWagon
Principal IDPartsVendor
w/Business number
 
IndigoBlueWagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
We went on a chartered trip this weekend. I happened to look over at the miles on the bus. (it was diesel) 410,000 miles.
And I've ridden in many Lincoln Town Cars over the years with well over 300K on them. Not really relevant.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 292K, new engine, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 194K; 1997 Passat, 272K; 2012 Golf, 23K; 1990 Miata, 68K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2013 Jetta S, 2000 2-door Golf TDI, 1998 Jetta TDI
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 16:08   #37
maxedtdi
Veteran Member
 
maxedtdi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kalifornia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
And I've ridden in many Lincoln Town Cars over the years with well over 300K on them. Not really relevant.
Yes, completely irrevenat to this thread.

The HPFP won't last 350k miles, I also doubt the DPF and other catalytic converters will last that long also.
This car has way too much tech to go that far without major trouble.

Others that keep thinking that... keep smoking the good stuff.
maxedtdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 16:33   #38
JettaTDiPA
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Northern PA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by about2buyTDI View Post
I have a 2012 Jetta Sportwagon on deposit and hope to take delivery by the end of the month. I'm planning on 40+ MPG and 350k+ miles. Am I nuts?
40+ is very obtainable - after some break in time. Mine is good for 37-38 in town and local highways- 42+mpg on highway.

I don't use any of "tricks" many people have successfully used to improve mileage. I just drive it. I don't have a lead foot, I don't normally exceed more than 5mph over speed limits.

350k life??? I very seriously doubt it. If you have deep pockets and time for repairs - maybe so. I will be pleased as can be if mine last 150k. (Although have never kept a car much over 100k)
JettaTDiPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 16:54   #39
BrianCT
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
TDI(s): TDI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxedtdi View Post
Yes, completely irrevenat to this thread.

The HPFP won't last 350k miles, I also doubt the DPF and other catalytic converters will last that long also.
This car has way too much tech to go that far without major trouble.

Others that keep thinking that... keep smoking the good stuff.
Go on over to other forums and see members replacing their entire exhaust systems out, some are pulling their emissions stuff out as well. They'll have the ecu reprogrammed and a chip tuner take care of power. I picked up some spare parts here and there for dirt cheap with little to no mileage on them. I'm certain that in a 5-6 year period there will be more systems you'll be able to buy that will "look" oem but are just pipes and containers for "visual" inspections.

The MK6 lasting 350,000 miles? Before you go mechanical think interior. We've seen front seats fray at 5,000 miles. What kills these cars are the emission devices. There are so many sensors and EGRs, flaps and pumps, filtres and what have you ...I think it'll nickle and dime you to death sooner or later once out of warranty.

Last note. We have all 3 version of these cars, MK4, MK5 and now the MK6. The MK4 has 263,000 miles on it. There's zero oil consumption and the compression was perfect last check at 250k. These are 400,000 mile motors easily. Why anyone would need to re-ring an ALH engine at 260k doesn't make sense unless he was racing it on a track or something. There are members who have 400k on these ALH engines and the internals never touched. LOL

The MK5? I think everything was fine for the first 88,000 miles except an EGR exhaust valve and pipe lower end [$500 repair] exploding at 48,000 not covered under warranty. After 88,000 miles this car has costed a pretty penny in repairs [cam, followers, EGR flaps, etc....] and it has 150,000 on it. Will this go to 350K? Yes, it will ...but trailing off the rear bumper there needs to be Wells Fargo Armored Car.

The MK6? Dunno. Honda Civic 2dr manual transmission perhaps.

Good luck.

Welcome to the TDIClub about2buyTDI!!!!




__________________

sent from an iThong™
BrianCT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 17:05   #40
sgoldste01
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Webster, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianCT View Post
Last note. We have all 3 version of these cars, MK4, MK5 and now the MK6. The MK4 has 263,000 miles on it. There's zero oil consumption and the compression was perfect last check at 250k. These are 400,000 mile motors easily. Why anyone would need to re-ring an ALH engine at 260k doesn't make sense unless he was racing it on a track or something. There are members who have 400k on these ALH engines and the internals never touched. LOL
So what are the pattern failures of the MK4 TDIs? Certainly the whole car isn't bullet proof....
__________________
SOLD: 2010 Golf 4-door TDI with 30k on odometer.
BOUGHT: 2012 Subaru Impreza Sport Premium 5-door with manual tranny.
sgoldste01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 17:12   #41
IndigoBlueWagon
Principal IDPartsVendor
w/Business number
 
IndigoBlueWagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Default

Well, my car may get re-ringed at 260K. Partly because I'm thinking of upgrading rods and partly because it has been run on the track a fair amount. There's really nothing that indicates it needs rings other than slightly increased oil consumption.

Failures? Turbos, certainly. Valve guides and seals, causing blue smoke on start-up but usually little measurable increase in oil consumption. Injection pumps, somewhat fuel quality dependent. The exhaust pipe rusts in front of the CAT. Cam and lifters fail, especially on '01s. But a downpipe for an A4 is $400, not $4,000. And a cam and lifter set is $200, not $750. Turbo is $839, not $1,295. And even the IP is $1045, not $1200 plus whatever collateral damage the HPFP failure causes.

So ALHs don't fail as soon, and when they do they're a lot less expensive to fix. Some of that is time as aftermarket parts have come available, but a lot of it is that it's a simpler engine.

I like my '12 Golf, a lot. But if someone put a gun to my head and said "pick one, the '02 or the '12," I'd take the '02. Even though it has 257K more miles on it.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 292K, new engine, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 194K; 1997 Passat, 272K; 2012 Golf, 23K; 1990 Miata, 68K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2013 Jetta S, 2000 2-door Golf TDI, 1998 Jetta TDI
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 18:29   #42
sgoldste01
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Webster, NY
Default

This might be the best explanation yet of why I should dump my 2010 TDI while it's still under warranty.
__________________
SOLD: 2010 Golf 4-door TDI with 30k on odometer.
BOUGHT: 2012 Subaru Impreza Sport Premium 5-door with manual tranny.
sgoldste01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 20:05   #43
BrianCT
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
TDI(s): TDI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
This might be the best explanation yet of why I should dump my 2010 TDI while it's still under warranty.
It's really about your needs sgoldste01. I'm driving a 2002 Golf ALH with 263,000 miles and it's still running the original turbo, down pipe, injector pump, radiator fans, radiator, heater core, transmission, starter, etc... Heck I replaced the original battery at 240,000 miles and it was still in perfect working order. But the tricky question is, was I lucky?

Any new vehicle should last 200,000 miles easily. I think the MK6 could last that long. The two items on the menu which ward caution are, HPFP and the CAT-System. If both of those go, that's $15,000 in repairs. Any company that creates an $8,000 emission exhaust system should be mentally committed. How can a car company make money when forced to develop that type of technology? Dayum, my inspection is visual on these cars. There's not even pipe test other than "looking" for smoke during inspection once a year. Is that worth $8k if not enforced?
__________________

sent from an iThong™
BrianCT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 20:20   #44
about2buyTDI
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Brimfield, MA
TDI(s): 2012 JSW 2.0
Fuel Economy: [URL=http://www.fuelly.com/driver/myjsw/jetta][IMG]http://mefi.us/images/fuelly/smallsig-us/133373.png[/IMG][/URL]
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianCT View Post
It's really about your needs sgoldste01. I'm driving a 2002 Golf ALH with 263,000 miles and it's still running the original turbo, down pipe, injector pump, radiator fans, radiator, heater core, transmission, starter, etc... Heck I replaced the original battery at 240,000 miles and it was still in perfect working order. But the tricky question is, was I lucky?

Any new vehicle should last 200,000 miles easily. I think the MK6 could last that long. The two items on the menu which ward caution are, HPFP and the CAT-System. If both of those go, that's $15,000 in repairs. Any company that creates an $8,000 emission exhaust system should be mentally committed. How can a car company make money when forced to develop that type of technology? Dayum, my inspection is visual on these cars. There's not even pipe test other than "looking" for smoke during inspection once a year. Is that worth $8k if not enforced?
I can tolerate moderately expensive repairs after 100k, say 2k to 3k but $5000 to $8000, that is a bridge too far.

The only vehicle that I ever had engine/drive train issue with, prior to 100k was a Dodge Dakota pickup. The engine seized at 58k. At that time, when I called around to dealer's service dept. most of them said that it was not uncommon. That was over 15 years ago. All my vehicles since then have gotten me over 100k, some almost double that, without major mechanical issues. Other than, tires, brakes, timing belts (normal wear items), I do not expect to have to shell out thousands in repairs.

Given some of the feedback, I'm rather apprehensive but I did speak with a couple of mechanics who believe that more likely than not, I should have a good experience with the JSW, but make sure to do the maintenance, etc. Obviously, there are no guarantees. Perhaps I'm letting my desire to get 40+ MPG blind me to some of the unfortunate possibilities, but I'm willing to give it a go. Wish me luck!
about2buyTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2012, 21:08   #45
BrianCT
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
TDI(s): TDI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by about2buyTDI View Post
Given some of the feedback, I'm rather apprehensive but I did speak with a couple of mechanics who believe that more likely than not, I should have a good experience with the JSW, but make sure to do the maintenance, etc. Obviously, there are no guarantees. Perhaps I'm letting my desire to get 40+ MPG blind me to some of the unfortunate possibilities, but I'm willing to give it a go. Wish me luck!
The real question is:

  • Horse
  • Cart
Prior to stringent diesel regulations on emissions, you had bullet proof motors floating around assembly lines for decades. That's the Horse scenario. The ALH motor in my 2002 has been around since the early 1970's, perhaps even before. It was a truck engine in its infancy from what I've read.


The Cart scenario is manufacturers running around chasing a market with a moving target on emissions while trying to get fuel mileage. You can see this in the absents of model years 2007 and 2008 diesel Volkswagen. In order to avoid a pun, they tried in 2 years to "reinvent" the engine. They did so around an emissions system compliance.


In the Cart scenario we all end up with a compromised longevity issue because diesel engines do not take well to heat [exhaust recirculation gases] and stringent fuel systems. This Cart system pacifies customers who are buying "a diesel" from Volkswagen that has good fuel economy under the guise of longevity that precedent models held.


History will tell.


Personally I think the 2009-2013 engine is a lovely design. I'm all about the 16v system and smooth diesel output. I'm not crazy about a half dozen EGRs and a milk bucket full of sensors up-stream and down-stream lighting up a MFD like the 25th of Decembre. On the other hand, it's amazing what engineers have accomplished in such short order and bewildering to see the GDI engines [Korean makers] putting out 40 plus miles to the gallon with mid-sized gasoline models. That collaboration and confusion.


Will there be a migration of diesel enthusiasts over to GDI engines due to vastly similar fuel economies?


Time will tell.
__________________

sent from an iThong™
BrianCT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Taking delivery this friday... moncureww VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 3 January 13th, 2004 09:38
4 to 6 Month Delivery? Did I Get a Good Price? TSmith VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 2 February 8th, 2003 20:14
TAKING DELIVERY FRIDAY HAVE JETTA WILL TRAVEL TDI 101 0 September 2nd, 2002 20:24
Taking Delivery, 02 Jetta Diesel Freak General VW Discussion 4 February 7th, 2002 19:31


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2014
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
© 1996 - 2013, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.18216 seconds with 10 queries
[Output: 140.63 Kb. compressed to 119.60 Kb. by saving 21.03 Kb. (14.96%)]