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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old June 12th, 2012, 11:03   #61
keaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fix_Until_Broke View Post
keaton - thats pretty cool.

If we know what frequency the bus runs at and what node addresses the turbo actuator and ECU are, the rest is easy(ish). Record all can messages on the bus and pick out the messages to/from the actuator over a wide range of commands to get a feel for the data range and resolution of the messages and if there are any enable messages or checkup bits that need to be set.. The controller (yet to be designed) then just needs to take a physical input (from N75 command) and spit out CAN messages (which is the easy part).
iirc CAN runs at 250kbs & 500kbs... i would have to go back and look at the code header files.. I wanna say 500, i think that what i'm running at in all my stuff...

if someone has a CAN based controller they can send my i can start working on it. tried to do this once before the the shipping was like $60+...

also got a bunch of Attiny167 with build in LIN support & a munch of CAN chips.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 14:03   #62
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If eventually the ecu is not going to be used for all the control strategy (probably more relevant to two turbo set up), then if we use boost to give some feedback, how is the boost signal to be processed. When logging boost, emp and AFR using a logger at 50 samples per second it is easy to see that the instantaneous boot pressure fluctuates by around 10% on 2260 at full boost, and a 65mm compressor wheel had nearly double that. As far as the control system is concerned this is noise.

I am not sure how the ecu deals with that, either through the I element of the PID, or if there is some other pre processing of the signal. Indications are that we may have substantially higher fluctuations than OEM.

As I have pointed out earlier I have seen some instances of boost instability, when pushing the performance envelope of the 2260, but to eliminate it has taken a much higher reduction on boost limits than I would have thought necessary.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 20:33   #63
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J1939/11 and 15 run at 250k but that's primairly for off highway vehicles and diesel engines. I don't remember the on highway standard, but I'd bet it has the same physical layer, just a different message structure. CANOpen can run 125, 250, 500, 1M, etc but 250 and 500 are the most common that I've seen.

It sounds like the CAN based actuator is not the most useful one due to it's orientation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keaton View Post
iirc CAN runs at 250kbs & 500kbs... i would have to go back and look at the code header files.. I wanna say 500, i think that what i'm running at in all my stuff...

if someone has a CAN based controller they can send my i can start working on it. tried to do this once before the the shipping was like $60+...

also got a bunch of Attiny167 with build in LIN support & a munch of CAN chips.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 07:43   #64
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Wouldn't a remote mounted actuator be feasible? Mount actuator in a more convenient location and then run a cable from actuator to turbo.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 07:52   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chapelhill View Post
If eventually the ecu is not going to be used for all the control strategy (probably more relevant to two turbo set up), then if we use boost to give some feedback, how is the boost signal to be processed. When logging boost, emp and AFR using a logger at 50 samples per second it is easy to see that the instantaneous boot pressure fluctuates by around 10% on 2260 at full boost, and a 65mm compressor wheel had nearly double that. As far as the control system is concerned this is noise.

I am not sure how the ecu deals with that, either through the I element of the PID, or if there is some other pre processing of the signal. Indications are that we may have substantially higher fluctuations than OEM.

As I have pointed out earlier I have seen some instances of boost instability, when pushing the performance envelope of the 2260, but to eliminate it has taken a much higher reduction on boost limits than I would have thought necessary.
Boost input is passed trough a PT1 filter, the time can chosen in the dataset
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Old June 13th, 2012, 08:16   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_DeWitt View Post
Wouldn't a remote mounted actuator be feasible? Mount actuator in a more convenient location and then run a cable from actuator to turbo.
That's a great idea Scott!
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Old June 13th, 2012, 09:28   #67
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^exactly what I was thinking.. a brief look at my 2056VK, it would be super easy to extend.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 19:23   #68
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Remote mounting and cable actuation opens a lot of doors for actuator options. Heck, I'd like to have that on my vacuum operated actuator for easier VNT adjustments

There are millions of gasser cruise control actuators that could be used. A large number of industrial controls with position feedback options are available.

So if it's this easy, why don't the OEM's do this? Not knocking the idea, but it seems too simple to have not been thought of before.

The spring on the actuators is pretty stiff so you'd probably need a guided cable assembly, one that would be relatively low friction and take the heat. A shifter cable would be a great example - guided for push/pull, takes a lot of force, smooth/low friction - I'm not sure if it would take the heat or not?

Tangent thought - Attention vendors - build a remote actuator kit where the cable mounts to the existing actuator bracket on the turbo and you can remote mount your existing VNT actuator on the firewall or valve cover or wherever you want for easy adjustments. Sell it for $100 and you'd have people beating your door down to buy it.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 19:40   #69
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Just a thought, deliver a solution for $100 and you would not cover the customer support costs.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 21:05   #70
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My suggestion was off topic of this thread - sorry about that.

A cable, one bracket and maybe a jam nut or two should be able to be sold for $100, make a decent profit and cover customer support.

This is not a solution for the EDC15 ECU to drive the newer actuators discussed on topic in this thread.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 23:51   #71
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It has been done driving such an actuator, ask T3-UN1 ( I think his nick was like that) then I would use the precontrol maps of a car originally equipped with such an actuator as starting point, as 100% means there vanes closed, while in edc15, 80% already means vanes to the stopscrew.

now one would need to use the N75 map also for stopscrew setting, or be careful with it, as when you command the actuator to pos x and it it his the stopscrew before reaching pos x it will stop working I think

Good and cheap PWM actuator can be found on the KKK bv50 etc from early audi 3l, turbos fail often so actuator should be cheap, ideally to be used with the cable idea
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Old June 14th, 2012, 01:16   #72
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Quote:
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The only situation where the factory clocking would nearly work is with a top mounted turbo and all custom pipework and oil lines, might need a funky layout to work well in a packed bay too.

VAG GTB's have the CAN-BUS actuator AFAIK
About the CAN-BUS actuators on VAG GTB turbos - I have two and they are with 5 pins, two directly wired to the motor and 3 wired to the position sensor. So these are for sure type 1.
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Old June 14th, 2012, 01:45   #73
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not much to do with these as the motor controller aint there =) better take one off MB or volvo etc
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Old June 18th, 2012, 18:32   #74
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I case CAN operation is still on the table, I had someone point me over towards Microchip's PIC32 line of MCUs for a project of my own. They have up to 2 CAN busses per chip, though their compiler is where they make the money and there isn't a simple alternative.

Keep in mind that running a remote cable ot the turbo needs to be able to withstand a tremendous about of heat and the cable length can influence the maximum bandwidth. Shielding the cable in a sheath of metal weave can help with both.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 07:12   #75
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