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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old April 10th, 2012, 22:33   #1
dapickupman
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Default 2002 Golf TDI died driving down the highway

Hey guys, I just purchased a 2002 VW Golf TDI. I do gas, but diesel is a little on the foreign side to me. I bought this car from another guy that said the car was driving down the road and just shut off. The timing belt appears to have plenty of tension on it. The only thing I can find at the moment is that I see air in the clear line going to the IP; its one big bubble about an inch long. I cracked each line open while cranking to try to purge the air, but all I get is a diesel stream. The glow plug light cycles, I see the fuel going through the line while cranking but the strange thing about the bubble is that it always comes back up to the top of the clear line. And their arent numerous little bubbles, just the one. I can squirt a tiny bit of ether down the intake and it will fire right up and run until the ether dissipates, so I believe the timing is ok. Not sure where else to start at the moment. I have researched the relay 109 thing, but I cant seem to find what the symptoms are of a bad relay. It is the gray relay 109, not the black one that I keep hearing about that melts down or dies. I have replaced the O rings on the return line T on the fuel filter, and have replaced all clamps with new ones to try to see if that was the air leak. Maybe a fuel shutoff solenoid, but if it was bad, the diesel wouldn't try to cycle through the lines when cranking or come out the injectors when I try to bleed them, would it? I pulled codes and all I got was "glow plug circuit, cylinders 1,2,3 and 4". Also, could a stuck anti shudder valve cause it to die while driving down the highway. Sorry for such a long post, just scratching my head at the moment. Any input would really be helpful!
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Old April 11th, 2012, 04:46   #2
Black00Jetta
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A fellow TDI owner had about the same symptoms and ended up having a dead fuel injector pump. Make sure you do your trouble shooting but since you are getting fuel at the injectors it should rule out a bad pump.

Relay 109 will give a no start and is an inexpensive part to try.

Good luck.
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Old April 11th, 2012, 05:26   #3
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Have you tried putting a vacuum on the IP return line to see if the bubble will get sucked out? When my jetta died with similar symptoms the timing belt slipped on the injection pump. I would check timing before going too far I burned up a started trying to figure out the issue. If it is timed right and continues to die when running it may be your IP.
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Old April 11th, 2012, 05:57   #4
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Running it on ether is not a good indication of correct timing. I've had 2 shops call me in to troubleshoot no-start problems after they tried to do timing belts, and both said "It starts right up and runs on ether just fine, so it must be a fueling problem..." When I got there, they had not put the cranks to proper TDC, and the timing was WAY off. Not enough to clank parts together, but certainly enough that it won't run. I would check that first and save yourself some headaches by eliminating that possibility.

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Old April 11th, 2012, 08:05   #5
dapickupman
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wow! thanks for all the quick replies. Where are the timing marks on this thing, and does anyone have a schmatic for where they line up? I don't have a VW dealer within a hundred miles or more of me, does anyone have the OEM numbers to the relay? How about that anti shudder valve? Thanks again everyone for all the ideas!

Last edited by dapickupman; April 11th, 2012 at 08:07.
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Old April 11th, 2012, 09:34   #6
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I was told that you should never use ether to fire up a diesel engine. It can cause major damage.
I only use WD-40 if I need to.
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Old April 11th, 2012, 11:16   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELM View Post
I was told that you should never use ether to fire up a diesel engine. It can cause major damage.
I only use WD-40 if I need to.
Don't spray ANY liquids, especially ether/starting fluid, into the intake on a TDI. Aside from possible explosion hazard with high temp GPs, a very real possibility of bending connecting rods due to hydrolocking (it doesn't take much).
Timing should be verified before any more attempting to start or you will do some (more) damage, if that is the issue. It is the first thing I would want to investigate.
Timing article here:http://pics2.tdiclub.com/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf
Need special tools and Ross Tech VCDS.
Also, just because the TB appears "tight" doesn't mean that it is still in time.
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Last edited by jettawreck; April 11th, 2012 at 11:23.
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Old April 11th, 2012, 11:27   #8
raybo
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I don't know if this will help, but the Golf went dead a couple of weeks ago and (I was told) it was the T fitting on the fuel filter. Got a new filter and T-fitting, all is ok now.
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Old April 11th, 2012, 16:47   #9
dapickupman
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Ok guys, I got a chance to pull the timing covers off and take a look; I have a timing belt that is missing a quarter inch of belt about 3 inches long. no missing teeth or broken belt, everything is tight. My guess is so far that I bet it may have jumped a couple of teeth and made it stop running. my question is: how far can it jump before it starts bending valves? And if it only jumped 2 or 3 teeth, would that stop it from running altogether?
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Old April 11th, 2012, 16:53   #10
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One is fun.
Two is goo.

OK, so much for Rhyme Thyme. One tooth off will be OK, but more than that means valve- piston contact. Line up the TDC mark on the flywheel, pull the vacuum pump and see if the slot is parallel to the head/valve cover surface. If it is breath a big sigh and see if the hole in the IP is lined up for TDC.

Here is a picture of the Pump holes:

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Old April 11th, 2012, 17:54   #11
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No matter the outcome, you guys are absolutely off the chain! I have never had this much help online!
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Old April 11th, 2012, 19:50   #12
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Looks like good news! The cam and crank line up! the injection pump is out of time. that would explain my no start problem. I tried the timing marks on the cam with the vaccuum pump pulled and 180 out or on TDC the cam notch on the rear is horizontal across the valve cover either way. Does it sound like I am out of the woods for now?
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Old April 11th, 2012, 20:13   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dapickupman View Post
Looks like good news! The cam and crank line up! the injection pump is out of time. that would explain my no start problem. I tried the timing marks on the cam with the vaccuum pump pulled and 180 out or on TDC the cam notch on the rear is horizontal across the valve cover either way. Does it sound like I am out of the woods for now?
Maybe...
It happens on occasion, but not often. Are you a recent lottery winner?? Feeling lucky??
The thing is the engine keeps going some after the belt looses the "teeth". Where it came to a stop is not an indication of what happened. Often the tensioner has failed and let the belt relax enough to slip on the sprockets and shred some teeth. Any time a piston to valve contact possibility occurs the valve cover should come off and the cam followers VERY closely inspected for ANY evidence of impact, exhaust valves in particular. If there is ANY chance that there was contact, the head comes off and the valves, guides, followers, etc get replaced/refurbished. Valves often look perfect, but they are not. They will have the stems slightly compressed and several thousands of miles later they break and drop into the cylinder. That gets ugly! Frank Irving is the go to guy for this head rebuilding, if needed. And if it were me, I would do it even if I was sure it still OK.
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2001 Jetta TDI GLS Silver-current driver (salvage)permanently vented-Panzer Plate-Sprint 520s-ScanGauge-CheckTemp III-ZeroStart heater-CAT 2 filter
2003 Jetta GLS Black w/leather (New Project Car) fixer-upper w/broken TB
2004 Cadillac SLS (wife's)
1999 GMC Suburban (It's MN-you need one)
197? Shibura 2cyl diesel 4WD tractor-loader/brushhog (very handy unit)
196? International TD340 Dozer-w/Drott 4-in-1 bucket/back ripper attachment
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Old April 11th, 2012, 20:18   #14
migbro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dapickupman View Post
Looks like good news! The cam and crank line up! the injection pump is out of time. that would explain my no start problem. I tried the timing marks on the cam with the vaccuum pump pulled and 180 out or on TDC the cam notch on the rear is horizontal across the valve cover either way. Does it sound like I am out of the woods for now?
Yes. If crank-cam timing is correct there should be no valve damage.

There's a ton of info here on how to do an ALH timing belt job correctly. Cliff's notes. Replace ALL parts (belt, tensioner, three rollers, water pump) with new parts from a reputable source, replace ALL TTY bolts and other bolts as recommended, use correct tools and proper procedure - see Drivbiwire's excellent DIY.
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Old April 11th, 2012, 20:34   #15
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And Prothe is not a reputable source.
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