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General Automotive General automotive discussion. This is intended to be a discussion about other not VW and Diesel cars you may have or interested in.

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Old April 2nd, 2012, 04:53   #31
PDJetta
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I know there is a lot of anomosity between cyclistes and motorists. I was not trying to bring this to light, or solicit such comments in my original post. I equally post about drivers who are seeking the Darwin award, as well.

Power Hound made a very important point: "Like, how to be civil to other people even if they don't deserve it". This is important. I know I could not live with myself if I hurt or killed someone, due to their mistake or negligence, if I could have done something different to prevent the accident, such as yield if a cyclist runs a red light, or swerve around the cyclist. And being able to do something different to prevent an accident, and choosing not to, just to "teach them a lesson" is just imoral and deplorable.

This is what the Virginia Code states about crosswalks (most states use similar language):

§ 46.2-924. Drivers to stop for pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty.

A. The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:

1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;

2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;

3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour.

B. Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection A of this section, at intersections or crosswalks where the movement of traffic is being regulated by law-enforcement officers or traffic control devices, the driver shall yield according to the direction of the law-enforcement officer or device.
No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic.
The drivers of vehicles entering, crossing, or turning at intersections shall change their course, slow down, or stop if necessary to permit pedestrians to cross such intersections safely and expeditiously.
Pedestrians crossing highways at intersections shall at all times have the right-of-way over vehicles making turns into the highways being crossed by the pedestrians.

Both the motorist and the pedestrian have a responsibility (I assume the "Dismount before crossing" sign is to enable the cyclists to pecome "pedestrians"). The pedestrian can not blatently step out in front of traffic when a car is too close for a driver, traveling at the posted speed limit, to stop. In this case, the pedestrian is at fault (if this can be proved).

But the motorist must yield if the pedestrian is in the crosswalk, and had entered at a safe time to do so. Lets say the pedestrian enters the crosswalk about 10 seconds before a motorists arrives, but trips and has trouble getting up. Upon seeing the pedestrian, the motorist must yield, If not, the motorist is at fault.

In my case, I had no time to yield, even if I wanted to. In addition, the cyclist blatently ignored a "STOP" and "Dismount Before Crossing" signs and failed on this account "No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic".

I just would like to avoid this situation, because I would hate to have someone get hurt and who knows, the way the legal system is, where I could be wrongly found at fault. That is a horrible crosswalk location.

--Nate
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Last edited by PDJetta; April 2nd, 2012 at 08:53.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 06:56   #32
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Nate, I agree that those GW Pkwy crosswalks are a problem. There is one down toward Mt. Vernon which is set up the same and crosses a pkwy feeder road. I dread that crosswalk. A couple years ago there were two cyclists stopped at their stop sign. As I drove through one gave me a very emphatic middle finger while the other one gesticulated wildly at the crosswalk, apparently making sure I had seen it. Played that event over in my head many times and damned if I could figure out what I had done wrong. Guess they wanted me to stop in the road and let them cross.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 07:12   #33
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Honeydew, I don't think you did anything wrong, if the Mount Vernon circle crosswalk is viewed by the authorities as is the one I traverse on the other side of I-395, and I suppose it is. The cyclist may not have realized this and thought you were supposed to stop. But in reality, they need to wait until it is safe to cross. You stopping could be viewed as an improper (and hazardous) stop in the road:

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/...kway-crossing/

I posted the above link to indicate the Park Police's (they have jurisdiction on the GW Parkway) view about motorists' stopping to let those waiting to cross the Parkway. Note too, that the article was written by someone who does not share the same view!

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Old April 2nd, 2012, 08:21   #34
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Mt. Vernon circle is a bit different since there are roadway stop signs at the cross walk. The one I'm talking about is ~3 miles toward Alexandria from Mt. Vernon in the Ft. Hunt area. No vehicle stop signs at that crosswalk. I agree with your analysis, the cyclists probably just weren't familiar with the rules.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 08:34   #35
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Everybody here should read what eb2143 wrote, it is absolutely spot on. I drive cars, I ride bicycles, some bicyclists are idiots/clueless, same for some drivers. Just consider this...in a car vs. bicyclist incident, the bicyclist always loses, so be a little patient and courteous, even if it isn't deserved, the world will be a better place for it.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 09:12   #36
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PDJetta: It almost sounds like they need to do a better job of completely segregating pedestrian and cycle traffic from that road, possibly using overpasses or underpasses for crossing the road (like the bike trail here uses to cross a freeway).
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 09:29   #37
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This just in from my cycling website....showing the risks bicyclist have, even when experienced and following all of the rules.....

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...or-sure_211934
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 09:37   #38
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When I was a teenager a cyclist rode out in front of me... his face bounced off the windshield of my '75 Bus (broke them both). Cop gave the guy a ticket and slipped it in his shirt pocket as they lifted him into the ambulance. Priceless.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 09:40   #39
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everyone pays taxes that pay for roads
If you don't drive then you don't pay motor fuel taxes into the Highway Trust Fund.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 09:56   #40
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Originally Posted by Powder Hound View Post
Too bad you didn't. Like, how to be civil to other people even if they don't deserve it. People like you make me wish I could fill your house full of soot. You deserve that, even if I am quite sure it is not possible for you to learn anything from it.

"What I deserve" is really not relevant to this thread. I am sure that at some point I will, and so will you, get what we deserve. In the interim, what is relevant too this thread is that a large group of cyclist decided that they owned the roadway. Indeed, they acted with blatant disrespect to any concept of sharing the roadway. Quite an arrogant attitude in my opinion. How does one get this attitude? The fact that some apparently identify with their demonstrated attitude is likewise not relevant to this thread. It is not and should not be about doing whatever the heck you want with impunity.

Anyhow, rather then pass them hap-hazardly and illegally (ie responding to their rude and illegal conduct in some like manner way), I instead waited patiently until such time as I could observe oncoming traffic (ie I had to crest the hill). I then lawfully passed them. One of us on that roadway had to be the grown-up.

The fact that they were excessively coaled by me in the process of lawfully passing them is one of those corrective learning opportunities in life (for them) to aide them with their future encouters with potentially not so courteous vehicles on the roadway in the future. These life lessons may aide them in their future endeavors. Just an opinion .........
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 10:09   #41
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Btw, in Ohio:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.55
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 10:19   #42
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Originally Posted by thebigarniedog View Post
"What I deserve" is really not relevant to this thread. I am sure that at some point I will, and so will you, get what we deserve. In the interim, what is relevant too this thread is that a large group of cyclist decided that they owned the roadway. Indeed, they acted with blatant disrespect to any concept of sharing the roadway. Quite an arrogant attitude in my opinion. How does one get this attitude? The fact that some apparently identify with their demonstrated attitude is likewise not relevant to this thread. It is not and should not be about doing whatever the heck you want with impunity.

Anyhow, rather then pass them hap-hazardly and illegally (ie responding to their rude and illegal conduct in some like manner way), I instead waited patiently until such time as I could observe oncoming traffic (ie I had to crest the hill). I then lawfully passed them. One of us on that roadway had to be the grown-up.

The fact that they were excessively coaled by me in the process of lawfully passing them is one of those corrective learning opportunities in life (for them) to aide them with their future encouters with potentially not so courteous vehicles on the roadway in the future. These life lessons may aide them in their future endeavors. Just an opinion .........
I cannot think of a better way to handle it. The car was gonna smoke when you tried to regain normal speed anyway.

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Old April 2nd, 2012, 10:21   #43
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And that's a pretty fair law - it basically means that taking the lane is legal any time that it makes sense to, and the only times it's not legal is when it doesn't make sense to do so.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 16:06   #44
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When I was a teenager a cyclist rode out in front of me... his face bounced off the windshield of my '75 Bus (broke them both). Cop gave the guy a ticket and slipped it in his shirt pocket as they lifted him into the ambulance. Priceless.
Wow! How do you miss seeing something as big as a VW Bus? And its not the driver's fault. After Friday, I can understand, though.

--Nate
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 17:27   #45
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And that's a pretty fair law - it basically means that taking the lane is legal any time that it makes sense to, and the only times it's not legal is when it doesn't make sense to do so.
LOL, that's not exactly what it says. Sometimes you cannot simplify what something says.

You must always ride as close as practicable to the right side of the roadway except the statute does not require you to ride at the edge of the roadway under unreasonable conditions. The exception does not negate "ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable." Because you cannot ride on the edge of the roadway doesn't mean it's legal to ride anywhere in the traffic lane. Also, unless there's a bike path, the cyclist is generally always riding in the traffic lane. It has nothing to do with "taking the lane" which I assume you mean moving far enough left so that a car behind could not pass without exiting the lane.

I'll bet you won't get away with riding three feet from the center line continuously and try to argue it was unreasonable to move any further right.
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