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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old March 30th, 2012, 08:05   #1
bhodgkiss
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Default Dropping PD pistons into a VE engine.... etc!

Hi all,

Thinking about a bombproof ASV engine build with 11mm pump, R520ís etc etc for about 220bhp (at crank)
Fancy sticking with a VE engine as opposed to PD J

Want the bottom end to be up for it so thinking of swapping in PD pistons and rods, which will also drop the compression ratio slightly, which is an added bonus.
So... are the PD100/PD130/PD150 rods and pistons all different in terms of strength please?

Also, iíve not worked on the bottom end of a car before.... so.....

I donít really want to remove the block and so if I simply take out the rods and pistons and swap in used PD versions, can i keep my original piston rings, in principle? As they will already be bedded into the bores nicely (hopefully, i can check for bore wear and marking first of course)

Or as standard practice should the bores be honed, new rings put in, and then bedded in with special oil over a short distance? Sounds like a lot more work than simply dropping in uprated used pd pistons and rods.

Do the piston rings actually locate in the groove of the pistons (radially), so that if i put different pistons in, the ring to bore gap may change? Or do the rings effectively float radially anyway so this isnít an issue?

(I guess it may be easier just to swap to a good condition pd150 ARL bottom end, and ASV top end? Does much need doing to get this to work please?)

If the bottom end is uprated, and head overhauled, the engine should be fine for 220bhp (at crank)? Or should the standard ASV pistons and rods be up for the job?

Then it just needs mapping properly to protect the 5 speed box J

Aside, did the ASV engines come with 7mm valve stems (as opposed to 8mm)?

Any help is appreciated as always.
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Old March 30th, 2012, 20:02   #2
Fix_Until_Broke
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It sounds like you're trying to do this on the easy/cheap (used pistions/rods/rings/etc and doing it in the car).

For an example of not doing it this way - see my recent build thread

To keep it cheap/easy, I'd probably just swap the whole bottom end with your existing top end - it's been done before by a couple memebers - Krout and Farfromovin if I remember correctly.

tothemax has done a lower end re-build in the car - search for his build thread.

220 crank HP is about the limit of the stock internals - rods bend/pistons break with sustained use at this power level. To keep it on the cheap, I'd dial your expectations back to ~200 crank HP and keep all your stock components. Otherwise go all the way and replace everything.
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Old March 30th, 2012, 21:17   #3
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You cannot bombproof on the cheap.
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Old March 30th, 2012, 22:17   #4
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I agree with Oldpoopie as my ALH Golf is currently running 219chp on the standard bottom end and everytime I give it a thrashing I'm always wondering when its going to let go.
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Old March 30th, 2012, 23:09   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leon10tagg View Post
I agree with Oldpoopie as my ALH Golf is currently running 219chp on the standard bottom end and everytime I give it a thrashing I'm always wondering when its going to let go.
You are on the ragged edge of bendng rods
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Old April 1st, 2012, 07:22   #6
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What its all about.....life on the ragged edge.....
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 05:53   #7
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thanks guys,

but can anyone tell me actually why i can't just drop in used pd rods/pistons and it run absolutely fine?

I'll be running used piston rings with matching used bores, which have bedded in properly, so provided they're not worn, how does the engine 'know' that the pistons have changed?

Interested to learn more.

Thanks
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 06:49   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhodgkiss View Post
thanks guys,

but can anyone tell me actually why i can't just drop in used pd rods/pistons and it run absolutely fine?

I'll be running used piston rings with matching used bores, which have bedded in properly, so provided they're not worn, how does the engine 'know' that the pistons have changed?

Interested to learn more.

Thanks
Piston rings tend to break on removal and it's wise to change them + needs a light hone + necessary bedding in period. I would only change the rods if you want a stronger bottom end and keep your pistons especially if they are Mahle jobbies !
As the others folk said, you cannot upgrade on the cheap, new set of rosten rods are only 400 from Darkside. Buy a piston ring compressor tool and new rod bolts IF not already supplied.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 09:01   #9
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If you don't have anything better to do and the engine is already apart, then yes, you can do that. It will probably run just fine as well.

The ring locations on the pistions may not be in the same location (my PD pistions that I put in my ALH had the ring lands quite a bit lower than the ALH pistions) so make sure there is no ridge in the cylinder at either the top or bottom. The rings will ride into new territory on one end of the stroke if the lands are different.

The whole thing is a lot of time and effort to put used parts in that are only marginally better than what you're taking out (rods anyway) and you still burn up a few hundred dollars in consumables (gaskets, rod bolts, head bolts, engine oil, coolant, etc). I'm reasonably sure it will work and run, but there is relatively high risk for relatively little reward.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 13:06   #10
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i understand that the BEW doesnt have valve reliefs so you may want to choose your pistons wisely.
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