2003 ALH finally throws P0811 at 253Kmi

Second Turbo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2002
Location
Kansas, USA
TDI
2003 ALH Wagon, 373K, 2nd 01M
The car still runs, and at 253,000 miles, I have no real complaints, but decisions probably need to be made, and soon.

The point of starting this thread is to ensure I understand the situation, and the alternatives. Meanwhile, the TDI is has now been demoted from primary commuter (24K miles per year) to being our backup vehicle, and we keep it at or below 55 mph when we have to run it.

This is an original-owner Jetta GLS TDI Wagon, bought in July 2002. Engine code is ALH (this is not a PD, as I has supposed in some other threads). Transmission code is FDB, the "legendary" 01M.

Although P0811, Excessive Clutch Slippage, is not in my Bentley manual, I understand that it implicates the transmission, and not the torque converter. The car could be, and probably is, throwing other codes, but the now-frequent P0811s are evidently pushing them off the stack.

In addition to the recent MIL illuminations during acceleration, the symptoms are RPM slips in all higher gears. On our mild hills, at 55 mph, I see rpms anywhere from 1600 to 2900. MPG, somewhat surprisingly, is not obviously affected yet.

The drive train has been hinting at failure for a very long time. After about 100,000 miles, I started seeing little 100 rpm blips every 15 seconds or so, while running on level ground - no codes. This may be an entirely different problem.

The choices appear to be:

1. Replace the car entirely.
Repair:
2. Stick conversion.
3. Aftermarket reman tran.
4. VW "factory" reman tran.
5. Recharge fluid. Consider valve body.

Replace?
Were it not for the festering HPFP problem, we'd have a 2012 SportWagen TDI on order already. But, as I've said on the HPFP thread, I have zero confidence that current CRs will make it to 250K without at least one $9K repair, or if sold earlier, that TDI resale values will remain elevated once the general public comprehends VW's "Pinto moment" on this matter.

We're surveying the market, but in the U.S., I've so far seen nothing with specs comparable to a Jetta TDI SportWagen. I want 42+mpg diesel (or 35+ RUG), 0-60 under 10 sec, carries 4 adults and their luggage, has roof rails that adaptable to support 12-foot long objects, has reasonable comforts, is priced well under USD$30K, and isn't hideously ugly. Detroit seems to be near rediscovering diesel and/or small block turbo, but probably not soon enough.

Repair?
Any further investment in this machine is a gamble. It's going to need all new tires in addition to any other work. The turbo is fixin' to fail, and the TC is a big unknown. See my next response for the full rap sheet. The car is, however, cheap to tag and insure, and if one budgets the equivalent of new car payments per year, that could cover a lot. Of course, the book value is dirt, and the next deer strike could result in an insurance "total" that is far less than what the car is worth to us.

As forum users have pointed out, even if you could get a brand new 01M, you'd still only have an 01M. I'm willing to consider installing a 5-speed. I don't have the time to locate and pull one, so I'd need to be able to order one (or better yet, a kit). I also need someone equipped for and experienced in performing the swap, located within 200 miles of Zip 67431. I suspect that both a kit supplier, and a regional installer can be found.

I presume that a stick conversion causes the TC itself, and any unknown failure risks therein, to simply vanish.

Our dealer is estimating $3500 for a 3rd-party remanufactured 01M (12M/12K warranty), and over $5K for a VW (which I think was 24M/24K). Problem is, driving 24K miles per year, those are really only 6 month and 1 year warranties. The dealer doesn't do stick conversions (and didn't even understand the question when I asked).

The dealer hasn't seen the car since the P0811 appeared, but has suggested checking the transmission fluid, and possibly replacing the valve body. From what I've read on this forum, even if one or both of those steps appears to fix the problem, it's likely to be surprisingly temporary.

Is that about it?
 
Last edited:

Second Turbo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2002
Location
Kansas, USA
TDI
2003 ALH Wagon, 373K, 2nd 01M
This is what "consumed" means.

The fuel system, drive train and accessories of this car are 100% original, with the exception of the front wheel bearings, brake pads, alternator and thermostat. It still gets 40 mpg, which suggests that the engine block and internals are in decent shape. Despite the 01M annoyance, I'm impressed. For example, I have never had an automotive air conditioner last this long.

So in addition to the known or suspected risk factors below, 253,000 miles means that potential failure points are legion.

If the 01M is replaced (with another 01M), this car still has the following issues:


  • Needs 4 new tires (mentioned in the basenote).
  • Turbo actuator sticks in very cold weather (throws an overboost code, and disables the turbo until restart; OK after warm up). Thanks to Global Hot Air(TM), no codes this winter so far. Tech says that replacing just the actuator is a risky bet, as the whole turbo may be thinking about retiring.
  • Torque converter is original. Could have its own problems already.
  • Skid plate has been missing for years, and unfortunately, we lost major segments of the supporting walls when the last one went. This is evidently a debris risk to the timing belt.
  • Bottom of vehicle is generally beat to death by running on gravel roads. Tubes and cables could fail at some point.
  • Windshield has a crack, right edge. $300+ if I bother.
  • Parking brake cable is at end of adjustment range.
  • Air bag system may be disabled. RH curtain system self-deployed some years back, and the AB fault indicator is on. I don't plan to fix it. No one can say for sure if the other bags would now work.
  • Rear passenger doors sometimes don't open. LH was replaced after a deer strike last year, and re-assembled incorrectly. I suspect that the techs took apart the RH to see how it worked, and screwed that up too.
  • Moon roof sometimes opens all by itself. We did have the drain recall done.
  • Passenger seat heater seems to have recently quit. We did have the heater recall done (after the driver seat burned through).
  • Dent in right front fender. I plan to fix it, for under $100, if we keep the car.
  • Lift gate struts need replacing.
  • Left front lower grill missing (coyote got it).
  • Center arm rest console latch broken.
  • Two of four rear license plate bolts sheared off.
  • AM reception on the Monsoon is terrible.
________
If VW still made new ALH or PD models, I'd buy one.
Unfortunately, they make only CRs with
Time Delayed Implosion HPFPs.
 

dogdots

Vendor
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
Kansas City
TDI
None
Looks like you are close to Junction City, KS. We are in KC and we have the best transmission guru for these TDI's, CoolAirVW. Within your 200 mile radius referenced above.

If you wanna repair/replace the 01m or want a 5 speed swap we can certainly help you out.

If you wanna sell the car as is, PM me a cash price and I will send you my email address so you can send pics.....
 

Second Turbo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2002
Location
Kansas, USA
TDI
2003 ALH Wagon, 373K, 2nd 01M
Roger that

dogdots: > ...CoolAirVW. Within your 200 mile radius referenced above.

Thanks for the response. I've seen that web site, but it had so many 404 images and broken links, I wasn't sure it was still in business. KC is definitely within range.

> If you wanna repair/replace the 01m or want a 5 speed swap we can certainly help you out.

Site sez: you (customer) provide parts. Any sourcing suggestions?

> If you wanna sell the car as is, PM me a cash price and I will send you my email address so you can send pics.....

That's a possibility. If we buy new, it's apt to be a custom build order, which complicates doing a trade in. I will not sell this TDI to an ordinary civilian who doesn't fully embrace what they'd be getting into, but selling it as a "core" to an expert turn-around shop is another matter.

I hadn't looked into resale/trade-in value until I saw your response. "Book" values for this configuration are all over the map, and I still haven't gauged the impact of three body shop visits (one deer on each side and headlight, and a rear-ending at a stop sign).
 

dogdots

Vendor
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
Kansas City
TDI
None
Prices posted on the website are labor only, we no longer allow customers to source their own parts because we want to warranty our repairs, so we need to control the parts flow from known legit sources.

We need to revamp the website and modernize it a bit, I will talk to Richard (coolairvw) about that.
 

Second Turbo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2002
Location
Kansas, USA
TDI
2003 ALH Wagon, 373K, 2nd 01M
Well how about that.

> ... but in the U.S., I've so far seen nothing with specs comparable to a Jetta TDI SportWagen. I want 42+mpg diesel (or 35+ RUG), 0-60 under 10 sec, carries 4 adults and their luggage, has roof rails adaptable to support 12-foot long objects, has reasonable comforts, is priced well under USD$30K, and isn't hideously ugly.

Since writing that, I've stumbled across the 2012 'Ru Impreza wagon, which appears to meet all of the specs with the possible exception of 4 adult's worth of interior luggage space (has more total volume than JSW, but less cargo). I haven't yet fully examined the potential downsides of the AWD (which we don't need) and the CVT (which, to my eyeball engineering, does not look like a 250,000 mile device).
 

CoolAirVw

Vendor
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
Jetta
All those things on your list are repairable. If you find a good mechanic (and Brian most certainly is) then you can love your car again.

I'll bet you could make your car sweet again for 1/2 the cost of a new Impreza. I'll bet you could make it reliable and good transportation for less than the sales tax on a new impreza... (maybe??)
 
Last edited:

Second Turbo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2002
Location
Kansas, USA
TDI
2003 ALH Wagon, 373K, 2nd 01M
P0811 TC or 01M?

> Although P0811, Excessive Clutch Slippage, is not in my
> Bentley manual, I understand that it implicates the
> transmission, and not the torque converter.


Can anyone confirm this?
I've been getting conflicting information.
One source says that P0811 has a unique meaning on 2003 models,
and implicates the TC.
 
Top