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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas

VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old March 8th, 2012, 00:37   #1
vancityflyguy
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Default Can-bus gateway module question

Hi guys, so I swapped my single 1cd basic radio headunit from my Jetta to a
6cd type premium 7 model. I just bought the car About a month ago and i never noticed anything wrong with the battery until 2 days ago when it was drained. I charged it up and by the next day it was the same thing again, dead battery.
I read about it and many people says that the can-bus gateway module needs to be changed in this situation. I talked to two vw specialists on the phone to get their oppinion. One said yes, the can-bus definitely needs to be changed. $320 for supplies plus installation and coding.
The other vw specialist says that he would be happy to get me a new can-bus and charge me for it but he has never heard of a radio draining the battery and that changing it wouldnt solve my problem. He says its just a coincident that the battery started draining after i swapped the radio. He thinks the problem is somewhere else.
Who do i believe?
Also i found this Website that sells a can-bus module for almost 3rd of the price what the 1st mechanic has told me.:
http://www.bold-sport.com/store/inde...&product_id=70
Would this type be compatible with my '06 jetta TDi and would solve my problem? Any oppinion would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you guys.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 05:18   #2
tdiatlast
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No knowledge about the "can-bus"...but...first things first.

How old is your battery? Have you had it load-tested? I would do that first...or just replace the battery if it's OEM.

IMHO, not noticing "anything wrong" with your battery doesn't really mean a whole lot.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 06:26   #3
tactdi
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Two possibilities since the car is new to you.

There is a known issue with the MK5 radios getting an internal short, and draining the battery, there are at least one thread to search for on this topic.

The other possibility and the more likely one is that the drivers door wiring harness has broken wires, preventing several of the door modules from going to sleep. There are also threads to search for this issue and a write up on removing the inter door pannel and outer door skin to replace the harness. Don't bother trying to splice the wires in the door harness, there is little room to work with, and it will not last. Removing the outer door skin sounds like a big/serious job, but it is not too bad, just take your time, and use painters tape on the edges to prevent scratching the paint.
You should also plan to visit the Dealer after the replacement to purchase replacement pannel clips that will get broken.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 08:36   #4
Andrewh
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actually first things first, how about testing to see if it is the radio?
pull the fuse or power to it and see if you still drain the battery over night.

if not, then I would start pulling fuses for known issues and see if that helps your power issue. or start measuring the amp draw.
1 ohm resistor in line with ground. measure voltage across the resistor and each volt equals 1 amp draw. you can start pulling fuses to figure out which one is the problem and know right away.

be aware you may need to let the car sit with the door closed 30 min to an hour so the stuff can go into sleep mode.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 13:27   #5
MakDad
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I second Andrewh. I currently have the same problem that you do. My CDC Error message keeps flashing, I know there's a short in the radio somewhere. With the 15 amp fuse in place, I get a totally dead battery in less than 24 hrs. With the fuse out, I can start it up no problems 3-4 days of sitting ...

If you know how to use an electrical tester and need help diagnosing if it IS your radio, PM me. I'll get you the details how to do it.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 15:02   #6
vancityflyguy
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Thnx you guys for all the info. I checked the alternator and my battery. They seem to be working fine. I will keep searching. Please guys keep the ideas and opinion coming. Thanks a lot!
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Old March 8th, 2012, 23:51   #7
buckets
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What model did you source the Premium 7 from?
After months of research on this problem via the internet before I swapped my old RCD300 for an RNS510, it seems if your CAN gateway is too "old" it won't communicate with the new head unit to turn the power off to it, causing battery drain. The information available to me said I needed a revision "L" or newer. But from personal experience, a CAN gateway with revision "K" or better should be fine.
If you can get access to a VCDS cable, you can check the revision easily. The revision is the last character in the module number.
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Old March 9th, 2012, 16:12   #8
vancityflyguy
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It was in a 2009 passat. So I've done acurrent check and i determined that the thing that is causing the problem is the radio's circuit.
So now how do i know, if it is the bad can-bus thatis giving me a hard time or if the used radio i bought is faulty. I contacted the guy who sold me the radio. He is willing to give me my money back but he said he never had any problems when it was in his passat. I need to figure this out somehow. If anyone has any suggestion pls let me know.
Thank you guys

Last edited by vancityflyguy; March 9th, 2012 at 16:16.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 10:36   #9
MakDad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancityflyguy View Post
Thnx you guys for all the info. I checked the alternator and my battery. They seem to be working fine. I will keep searching. Please guys keep the ideas and opinion coming. Thanks a lot!

How did you check the battery and alternator ?

Also, was the battery draining before you changed the radio to the new one ?
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Old March 10th, 2012, 13:17   #10
vancityflyguy
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I didn't notice the battery being drained before I changed the radio. And I charged the battery , then disconnected it for the night and next day it was still on 12.6V. And When I re-connected it and started the engine it was over 14V. I guess there is a way to "load test" it, but I haven't done that and I'm not exactly sure how to either.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 13:34   #11
MakDad
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more than likely there's a short in the radio. get your money back. Try taking the 15 amp fuse out and leave it out until the next time you start the car. if the battery holds it's charge, you'll know for sure it's the radio
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Old March 10th, 2012, 14:55   #12
vancityflyguy
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I just went to check because i took the 15A fuse out yesterday afternoon when I got home, and the battery still sitting on 12.65V. SO thats good.
I also looked for the gateway. ITs a 1K0907530F.
DO you guys know if this suppose to support a 6 cd premium 7 radio?
Thanks you guys. You've been an amazing help
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Old March 12th, 2012, 00:16   #13
apples12
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your gateway does NOT support the radio you fitted

http://www.my-gti.com/1101

please see that link

you WILL need to update the CAN gateway, however, please please please do yourself a favour and DONT pay $320 for a replacement gateway! get yourself over to a 'wreckers' yard or salvage yard thats got a >2007/8 car and get the gateway from that

get that fitted into your car and coded in, its very very easy if you know someone with access to vagcom or VCDS, i managed to do mine myself, if you need any assistance or vagcom shoot me a PM i'll be glad to help

had to do the exact same thing in my 2005 after upgrading from RCD300 to RNS510

good luck!
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Old March 14th, 2012, 23:04   #14
vancityflyguy
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So I had an appointment today with the vw specialist. The one that told me that it is not the canbus. We had a good conversation and he still thinks that there is a short in my radio. Well I am going to take a chance and get the canbus anyways and get it coded and hopefully prove him wrong. I checked at the scrapyards around here and they say that it's really rear to get a " newer" vw like that. SO I will order the one from Bold-Sport.com. http://www.bold-sport.com/store/inde...&product_id=70 for $99 and cross my finger. I'm also thinking about investing into a vag-com. I might need it later on and even If I don't I'm pretty sure I can sell a used one for $250. I will let you guys know what happened.
Thanks for all the input
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Old March 15th, 2012, 09:53   #15
vwmttek
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The CAN BUS system will not cause a parasitic draw. The CAN BUS system is basically networking of the control modules, allowing them to communicate with one another. Allows for WAY less wiring and rarely has issues. It does not provide power to anything, signal wires only. A module typically will have its own seperate direct power/ground wiring. If a module is removed or changed in that system, that the gateway does not recognize; it simply will not communicate with it. Unless the wiring to the radio has changed, it should not allow it to stay on. I would be careful using different gateways, as it was mean't to read different modules also. May cause other issues down the road...
I'm sure coding can be altered to make it work correctly, but I'd make sure you find someone that knows what their doing as it can really mess other things up.

Your radio is what is probably causing the drain. A simple way to test it. Research on how to do a proper parasitic draw test using a amp meter (easy). Wait 20 mins and allow all the computer to go to "sleep". Make sure all doors, hoods, trunk ect are close. No lights on. Key removed.
You should have at most .050 mah of draw, even that is a bit high. You will probably have over .100mah of draw. Being its draining over night almost, probably 1amp or higher.
If you see more than .050 mah draw, disconnect ONLY the radio. Do not disconnect ANYTHING else or open the doors, as it will wake a module. (You can try removing the fuse, but it will probably wake up a module).Allow it to sit again for a bit and see if the amp draw changes. If it drops, there's your problem. If it doesn't, you have another draw somewhere else. Removing fuses is NOT the method for checking draw on newer VW's. It will cause modules to wake up and not give accurate results.
You can also do a voltage drop test across the radio fuse and compare the voltage to the VW parasitic draw chart.
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