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TDI Fuel Economy Discussions about increasing the fuel economy of your TDI engine. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old February 22nd, 2012, 07:01   #16
HRC-E.B.
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To answer a few questions:

To those that suggest wrong car for me, you are entitled to your opinions. As it turns out, my mix of city and highway mileage would be minimum 50-50%, more like 60% highway 40% city most of the time. As far as I know, it I am not venting frustration but, rather, trying to understand how to get my car to perform as advertised (i.e., EPA-rated mileage).

Temperatures were around -10 degrees celsium (20 F) and are now overing around 30-35 F nowadays.

Brakes appear not to be dragging.

As far as checking mileage, I do it by measuring the number of liters put in when filling up completely vs mileage. This would tend to confirm that the MFD is optimistic by 0.2 to 0.4 liter (1.5 to 2 mpg).

Understanding that highway mileage is where the car shines and warm-up costs fuel, my questions are fairly simple:

1) at what approximate mileage can I expect break-in to be sufficient to get to the EPA-rated fuel mileage?

2) is the car supposed to be a gas hog in the city all the time? Because even when warm, I find that it uses a lot of fuel (around 22 mpg) driving normally in the city (i.e., using the engine's torque, shifting around 2750 rpm or so), whereas the EPA says 30 mpg city.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 07:07   #17
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Post 8, post 15
HERE:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...67&postcount=1
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 07:27   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRC-E.B. View Post
... trying to understand how to get my car to perform as advertised (i.e., EPA-rated mileage).
To equal or improve on the EPA rated mileage, your conditions need to match the EPA test's model journey.
* Highway speed of 60mph max, average 48mph (much slower than in real life)
* Accelerating at 3.3 mph per second (much less than in real life)
* Between 68 and 86 degrees Fahrenheit (less will cause higher fuel consumption)
* No aircon or heating
* Urban drive of 7.5 miles assuming free-flowing traffic (less will cause higher fuel consumption, traffic congestion will also cause higher fuel consumption)

The details are in this post:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1510

There is no way you can get anywhere near EPA until winter is over.
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Last edited by MikeMars; February 22nd, 2012 at 07:30.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 09:22   #19
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Mike, I don't think that he is aware of the way how diesels work. It doesn't matter what we say, the question stays the same.
The link that an60an have posted on 8 and reposted on 17 from Drivbiwire is explaining everything in details about break-in and how long it would take, however he is still asking:
"1) at what approximate mileage can I expect break-in to be sufficient to get to the EPA-rated fuel mileage?"
Some times one need to learn on their own. Some times even our best intentions and desire to help is not good enough. You could only help a person who would like to be helped.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 13:09   #20
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Originally Posted by Padrino View Post
Mike, I don't think that he is aware of the way how diesels work. It doesn't matter what we say, the question stays the same.
The link that an60an have posted on 8 and reposted on 17 from Drivbiwire is explaining everything in details about break-in and how long it would take, however he is still asking:
"1) at what approximate mileage can I expect break-in to be sufficient to get to the EPA-rated fuel mileage?"
Some times one need to learn on their own. Some times even our best intentions and desire to help is not good enough. You could only help a person who would like to be helped.
Forget my other questions! A more appropriate, and certainly more interesting question is: how could someone like you pull off the feat of being THAT condescending without getting punched in the face all the time if it were not for internet forums?

You have all my sympathy, as it must truly be awful to be you.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 13:16   #21
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Sorry. I MUST ask: do you not know how to read???

To be clear: I did NOT ask "how should I break-in my TDi engine". I've read that post. Several times. Thank you.

My questions were fairly simple: 1) at what point during this break-in process should I see a difference in mileage sufficient to get close to the EPA ratings and the type of mileage that most others report here? And 2) Is it normal for this car to yield 22 mpg driving in the city even when warm, as this seems high for a small 4-cyl engine. In other words, are diesels that much worse for fuel in city driving than similarly-sized gassers?

Are these not simple enough questions?
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 13:37   #22
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Originally Posted by HRC-E.B. View Post
Forget my other questions! A more appropriate, and certainly more interesting question is: how could someone like you pull off the feat of being THAT condescending without getting punched in the face all the time if it were not for internet forums?

You have all my sympathy, as it must truly be awful to be you.
Are you sure you are Canadian? Every Canadian I ever met was very pleasant and nice, but once again every rule have an exception.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 13:47   #23
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Are you sure you are Canadian? Every Canadian I ever met was very pleasant and nice, but once again every rule have an exception.
If "nice" means "spineless", then no I am not nice. Your post was deeply condescending, to the point of being disrespectful, and I felt obliged to point it out.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 13:48   #24
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Originally Posted by HRC-E.B. View Post
Sorry. I MUST ask: do you not know how to read???

To be clear: I did NOT ask "how should I break-in my TDi engine". I've read that post. Several times. Thank you.

My questions were fairly simple: 1) at what point during this break-in process should I see a difference in mileage sufficient to get close to the EPA ratings and the type of mileage that most others report here? And 2) Is it normal for this car to yield 22 mpg driving in the city even when warm, as this seems high for a small 4-cyl engine. In other words, are diesels that much worse for fuel in city driving than similarly-sized gassers?

Are these not simple enough questions?

If I can read your repeated posting this is enough of a proof that I can read. What you fail to recognise is the fact that PROPER brake-in procedure is very important for the performance of any TDI engine...but to understand this you need something more than just ability to read..... intelligence would help.
However now is my turn to ask you: Can YOU read?
The answer to your question 1 is in posting from Engineers<3Diesel (this was posting 18) but once again you should be able to read.....
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 13:51   #25
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If "nice" means "spineless", then no I am not nice. Your post was deeply condescending, to the point of being disrespectful, and I felt obliged to point it out.
Whatever.... I hope you sleep better tonight.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 13:51   #26
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Originally Posted by an60an View Post
If I can read your repeated posting this is enough of a proof that I can read. What you fail to recognise is the fact that PROPER brake-in procedure is very important for the performance of any TDI engine...but to understand this you need something more than just ability to read..... intelligence would help.
However now is my turn to ask you: Can YOU read?
The answer to your question 1 is in posting from Engineers<3Diesel (this was posting 18) but once again you should be able to read.....
Ok. I get it now. Any effort to seek clarifications on anything here will cause the resident jackasses to belittle the poster. I see. Shame on me for asking a damn question on the internet. I should have known...
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 13:59   #27
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Originally Posted by HRC-E.B. View Post
Ok. I get it now. Any effort to seek clarifications on anything here will cause the resident jackasses to belittle the poster. I see. Shame on me for asking a damn question on the internet. I should have known...
No, no...you got it wrong, shame on you for asking the same question over and over again and expecting different answer....hey you know what?
This was saying from Albert Einstein, no actually it was a definition of insanity by him:
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."


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Old February 23rd, 2012, 06:21   #28
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Finally someone who talks real fuel milage numbers, 7.1L/100 in the winter. Sounds a lot like what I get, I never get the 4.7L/100 that a lot of people are talking about, not even in the summer on the highway. Then they say that its because I have a new TDI, the old ones get MUCH BETTER milage. I cant see that as the new ones are precisions injection, accurate injection volumes, etc. I guess you have to take what you get.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 06:43   #29
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Originally Posted by HRC-E.B. View Post
Pretty new car (2,600 km or 1,600 miles). On a mix of about 60% highway @ approx 75 mph and 40% city driving with about 10 cold starts (10-15 degrees F), I am averaging 7.2 l/100 km or 34 mpg.

34 mpg is not disastrous, but several small gas-powered cars do a bit better (newer Civics, newer Hyundais, etc.).

How bad does it get for you guys in the winter? More importantly, how much better performance can I expect with summer fuel and warmer temps?

Also, how long before I see an improvement related to better break-in and how much does that typically represent?
I've been getting 33-35 mpg per tank and closer to 50/50 highway vs around town miles. I've done much better in the fall. Best I've seen is high 30s- low 40s. Per tank.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 07:53   #30
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Originally Posted by fs2k2k View Post
Finally someone who talks real fuel milage numbers, 7.1L/100 in the winter. Sounds a lot like what I get, I never get the 4.7L/100 that a lot of people are talking about, not even in the summer on the highway. Then they say that its because I have a new TDI, the old ones get MUCH BETTER milage. I cant see that as the new ones are precisions injection, accurate injection volumes, etc. I guess you have to take what you get.

This is a known fact that the pre-emission diesel engines have better fuel mileage than engines built after 2010 for most diesel engine builders. You can thank the EPA for this.

There are several design elements that were used to meet the 2010 emission rules that affect fuel mileage. One cause is the EGR the other is the DPF that is on most diesel engines built after 2010.

The EGR is cooled and routed back into the combustion chambers of the engine, this displace the oxygen that would be in the combustion chamber. Thus you are not getting a clean burn of diesel fuel and not getting all of the potential energy that is in the fuel for use.
The other is the DPF with a lot of city driving you will be loading up the DPF with more diesel particulates that need to be burned off too prevent plugging of the DPF. The regeneration of the DPF uses diesel fuel in the exhaust to burn the diesel particulates and to clean the DPF. This burning of diesel fuel is none useful work and fuel mileage will suffer.

As an example of this my son has two pre-emission, Cummins equipped pick-up trucks. One is a 98, 24V which gets 22 to 24 MPG on the highway (work truck). His other is a 06, this truck is equipped with 90HP over stock injectors with a dual CP3 pump and programmer. This truck also gets 20+ MPG on the highway.
Now my truck is a 08, 6.7L 24V Cummins that is 2010 emission compliant this truck on a good day will only get 16 to 17 MPG. I have fours of data to back this up.
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