Car wont turn over pleas help

Hi all,

I have a 2001 TDI manual tranny. I just bought the car in November I believe.

Ever since the winter the car has been giving me trouble starting. At first it would just take a little longer to crank before it starts. But then it started displaying symptoms which I thought was a bad battery.

When I first turn it over, it will really lug once or twice before turning over normally to to start. I thought it was the battery, I took it to Canadian tire to have them test it and it tested fine, 730 Cold cranking amps.

I cleaned up the terminals as they were bad, added a little distilled water to the battery as some of them were slightly low. It seemed to be ok after that, until 2 weeks later when it started to come back.

It is almost as if there is not enough Initial power to start cranking the engine, or there is too much compression in the engine at first and after that one or 2 revolutions it is good so spin freely.

Yesterday it got to the point where it wouldn't even turn over when i tried to start, there was a strange sound and now I get nothing. There was also the burnt electrical smell after this attempt.

Later that evening I tried jumping with my truck just to rule out the battery 100% and I get absolutely nothing, it won't even try to crank over.

Does anyone have any ideas? Is it maybe a relay somewhere, or the actual starter itself? I have never experienced this problem where the first revolution is hard to crank but the rest is ok. Usually that means the battery but not in this case. Is this how the starters go in these cars?

Thanks.

Dead starter... pretty common for the ALH cars these days.

VeeDubTDI said:

Dead starter... pretty common for the ALH cars these days.

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Really? These are the symptoms of a dead starter? I thought starters would just quit and die, like working fine one day and not the next.

If this is the case I would be happy as I would rather replace the starter than try and chase down other electrical problems.

On the TDIs, they'll usually start cranking slowly and then eventually die completely. You can still start the engine on a dying starter for several months or longer.

VeeDubTDI said:

On the TDIs, they'll usually start cranking slowly and then eventually die completely. You can still start the engine on a dying starter for several months or longer.

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Thanks for the quick reply.

Ya, that sounds like it exactly. Had I known it had a starter issue i could have changed it before it got cold.

Is there a how to change the starter write up on this board? I don't even know where it is or what it looks like.

There's one here:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=844411

Here's another one:

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/multi/starter-fix-removal-mk3-mk4-VW.htm

Thank you very much.

I should have known to check the 1000 faq.


The other thread is good too.

yup, definetly a dead starter, when you get the new one installed (it's pretty straight forward), you'll notice a huge difference ! hapenned to my 99 beetle ! good luck !

Any idea on the torque specs for the bolts holding on the starter?

All I could find were the specs for a 98 which said

44 ftbls for the top bolt
35 ftlbs for the bottom one

Is it the same for the 2001?

Thanks.

Anyone on the torque specs?

I also found out that there are 2 different starters for the 2001 Bosch and Valeo, apparently if you have one you can't use the other.

48 ft-lbs.

whitedog said:

48 ft-lbs.

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Thanks for the reply. I put the starter in last night, didn't see your reply till now. I torqued them to just over 45, they were pretty tight and I knew not to go to much over that as they are going into aluminum.

The car turns over so much better now. It cranks and starts much faster. before even in relatively warm weather it would take at least 2 times cranking to start, now it starts the first time.

I didn't think it would make such a big difference.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

I have a 2003 ALH golf. Been a member for a while and always had some difficulty starting (~5-8 secs cranking) when the cooler weather started coming and especially first thing after parked overnight. In summer times it was fine but still took a few seconds(~3-5) of cranking after parked overnight. Finally the starter died and what occured to me (when I replaced it and opened the old starter) was that I was likely running with only 1 motor brush for the last 6 years. Also the grease inside was all dried up over the years and probably caused the starter to overheat and die. I bought my TDI 2nd hand so never knew how fast a new starter worked on the TDI. Now the car starts with about 1 sec or less of cranking. I also took extra precaution with these new starters and opened it up and added additional grease so it has plenty of lube. Even from factory these starters were not that well greased but I do admit I got the cheaper one... but this is pretty simple device and there isn't much technology behind a starter so I didn't feel the need to buy the 'luxury' edition.

Rockauto.com was a great resource for a cheap starter but I would recommend adding more grease to the starter or at least examining it to see the condition of the grease. Might also be worth noting for those who have an older start to examine the condition and clean/add grease as preventative maint. Doesn't take that much effort to remove a starter.

Bottom-line a starter with inadequate dried grease = More friction = less cranking speed, more cranking time, more current draw, more heat, risk of premature failure, more load on battery

My daughter bought her first car...a 2002 New Beetle. We got it as a non-runner. The injection pump was leaking so badly it wouldn’t start. I resealed the pump and replaced the timing belt etc with the DieselGeek kit (what an awesome kit!). I bled the air from the injection system and got it running like an absolute top. I did a full brake job and parked it while looking for a good deal on some 16” tires and when I went back I found the battery had kicked the bucket. Replaced with a new one and now it will spin (slowly at first then increases in speed) but willl not start. Starter was tested at Auto Zone and tested “good”. Any ideas? Is there a lift pump in the tank that might be bad?

Is the current battery fully charged still? Was the original battery just worn out or do you have a short that is draining it? What is the current battery voltage? At rest and while cranking?

Air getting in the fuel lines after it sets for a while. There is no lift pump in the tank on these unless someone added one which is unlikely.

Air in the fuel lines won't make it not turn over or turn over slowly. Got to fix that first. It needs a minimum rpm to even start. Battery or starter or short issue depleting the battery. Sounds suspicious that it started and ran beautifully, then sat and wouldn't turn over.

Battery had a dead cell. Replaced the battery and had a negative terminal/lead not tight enough...another dead battery...recharged now everything else is great but I’ve lost the in-tank lift pump. I can’t find a fuse schematic and all that I check that are hot in run are still good. I see a relay under the dash...is that a fuel pump relay? The car ran like a top once I installed the seals, new filter and used Dieselgeek’s tools (IP alignment pin & cam locking tool being the best purchases Ive made in a minute!). I think either the pump failed or I have a simple electrical issue.

tdijarhead said:

there is no lift pump in the tank on these unless someone added one which is unlikely.

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^^^^^^^

You need to use a vacuum pump to suck fuel up to the injectors the first time if it lost prime. There is no in tank lift pump on a stock car. Unless someone added one which is unlikely. Pull fuel up to the injectors and try to start it. If it won't hold fuel up, you have a leak somewhere that needs to be repaired.

as above - there is no lift pump in a stock ALH. However - you might try filling up the fuel filter (after the filter is in) to get things started.