www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2014 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You



Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI Power Enhancements

TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 17th, 2012, 20:00   #16
Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Boise, Idaho
Default

The new Bosch CRI injectors are .117 but support 140hp, these flow more than the .234 Titans. Hole sizes are going down but flow volume is going up as well as reduced production variance nozzle to nozzle.

Hole size does not always mean a higher peak volume when it comes to high pressure high velocity fluids. The design and shaping of the holes determine the flow more than the diameter. Of course if you blow the tip clean off, hole size wins in this case

__________________
www.DBWLLC.net

Last edited by Drivbiwire; January 17th, 2012 at 20:04.
Drivbiwire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2012, 21:04   #17
Seatman
Veteran Member
 
Seatman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Scotland
Fuel Economy: No idea
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas_sky View Post
so anyone else running bosio or titan .234 nozzles on a alh w/ stock vnt 15 ? if so what tune are you using in conjunction with the nozzles?
I'm running the PP764's on a standard turbo and no tune yet, hoping to get it this year. Smoke is a light haze at most but the extra torque is really nice especially uphill. It's funny actually, the other night my friend and I were out and about, he has the evry mod on his car. Anyway he switched it on and planted his foot, I gave mine a bit of foot in 4th and thrashed him lol, all his did was smoke. I get a nice even power all the way to 4500rpm.
__________________
My gt tdi estate oem type build thing
2001 Mk4 golf 1.9tdi ALH, Bosio PP764 nozzles setup by Project-power (.co.uk) and custom tune by Nytrix tuning


Seatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2012, 06:22   #18
Keebler145
Veteran Member
 
Keebler145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Niles, Ohio
Fuel Economy: ~45
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drivbiwire View Post
Just my plug here I guess. I have titan 520's and they dynoed identical to my power plus 764's. Both were tuned for acordingly and regardless of the tune adjustments neither varied from each other more than 5 hp.

Take it for what it's worth but I would just find the BIGGEST hole nozzle and have it shimmed/tuned to what you need. You can cut fuel out hard to request more than the nozzle can provide though.

Not disagreeing with what Drivbiwire has to say on purpose, but I think the R520 nozzles with .260 diameter holes always perform better than the pp764 that are supposed to "out flow" everything and compete with race520's (or close to them)

I'm of the opinion now a day that flow is to some extent a lot of hogwash. Your fancy calibration tests are cute, but real world application where the fuel temp varies along with the pressure of the IP due to RPM your $$$$$ machine just doesn't seem to match the real life data =(
__________________

424,000 miles and counting, On the frame that is (as of sold date)
Gt2256v 3 in downpipe and vibrant resonator, 3in OMI and FMIC all by Whitbread, Titan 520's, Port & Polished Head courtesy Franko6, RC 6, 11mm IP, PD LiftPump. Rosten Rods, PD150 Pistons, Oil Cooler, Fuel Cooler, Diablo W/M Kit,DC III clutch, Built 5 speed with LSD

Last edited by Keebler145; January 18th, 2012 at 06:25.
Keebler145 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2012, 07:22   #19
robnitro
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NYC area, NY
Default

The cr makes up for smaller size by running higher and more stable pressure. Also, the cr doesn't have to work against the pilot/main spring as it is piezo actuated. EDIT: Almost forgot, they run more holes on the CR too!

Also pressure ratio alone doesn't tell the full story:
Lets say we have CR 1500 bar, VE 1000 bar, and a guess of 150 bar avg in cylinder.
Without cylinder pressure CR is 150% higher pressure.
With differential to cylinder pressure (1500-150)/(1000-150) x 100 we get 158%, meaning that higher pressures help in the real world where the injector is injecting into an already pressurized cylinder.
__________________
Titan 764,11mm IP,VNT17(clickforBoost),3 bar MAP,ColtStg2,Whitbread Ported Head,ebay FMIC,2.5"exhaust+cat,lift pump,Koni Reds,wagon springs -- Check your case relief valve for IP issues!

Last edited by robnitro; January 18th, 2012 at 11:31.
robnitro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2012, 08:11   #20
kenmaira
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Austin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas_sky View Post
so anyone else running bosio or titan .234 nozzles on a alh w/ stock vnt 15 ? if so what tune are you using in conjunction with the nozzles?
I spoke with Malone and he recommended that I go with a Stage 2 tune, and when I upgrade my turbo go to stage 5..... I do have a 11mm pump, so that might be a bit different for you.

-Dave
__________________
VAG-COM owner
2001 GL, Stage 2 Clutch, Lightweight Flywheel, Dieselgeek Racepipe, Titan 764's (.234) Ceramic brake pads, 11mm Injection pump IN! 10/30/2011, Bilstein TC Sports front & back!
kenmaira is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 24th, 2012, 15:25   #21
Texas_sky
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ATX/Mile Hi
Fuel Economy: unknown at the time, waiting for engine swap
Default

Due to the fact that I'm going to be running a stock turbo (for the time being) and stage two tune, I'm gunna go with the PP764's. Seem to have better real world results over the Titan Nozzles from the testing you guys have done.

thanks to all who have put forth their intuition and technical data into this topic... will be nice just to get this car out on the street and put the hammer down to see what a modified diesel machine can do!

Last edited by Texas_sky; January 24th, 2012 at 15:32.
Texas_sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2012, 04:51   #22
iCharlie
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Miami
Fuel Economy: 42 mpg average (mk4) 38 mpg average (mk5)
Default

Hey guys! I'm wondering what Tune to go with. I also have Titan 520s (.216) injectors on my stock turbo and I'm ready to have it tuned now. What tunes are you all going with?
iCharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2012, 05:17   #23
NewTdi
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: planet Earth
Fuel Economy: 52/47/39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iCharlie View Post
Hey guys! I'm wondering what Tune to go with. I also have Titan 520s (.216) injectors on my stock turbo and I'm ready to have it tuned now. What tunes are you all going with?
Depending if you have other supporting mods I think that you can safely run a stage 2. The tuner of your choice will be able to set you up correctly once he knows what hardware you have.
NewTdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2012, 16:06   #24
Evgeniy K.
Veteran Member
 
Evgeniy K.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ukraine, Zaporozhye
Default

Who say shat Titan 764 is 0.234?
I bought them this week, but they make the same fuel as my old 0.225 German "dieselcontor" nozzles. I see this because of boost i need to burn the fuel at the same fuel map settings. I made test 60-160km/h run - the result with Titan was not better, it was near the same but without any smoke. I To burn fuel with this nozzle i need 1.65 bar.

I wonder, or German seller ships me 0.240 or 0.260 nozzle (he had 225, 240 and 260 sizes), or this Titan 764 not 0.234 but smaller!
Any ideas?

(I edit this topic, because after 30 min ride with vag-com. Last ride was shorter and not so correct)
__________________
My MK4 1.9 TDI 3-DR AT R520, 2260@4-1 Manifold,
http://www.golf-club.org.ua/forum/vi...=31522&start=0
Wife's MK 2 1.9 TDI, 3-DR, 5sp, R520, 2260, etc.
http://www.golf-club.org.ua/forum/vi...0414&start=180
Self chipped.

Last edited by Evgeniy K.; April 14th, 2012 at 10:36. Reason: re-ride it
Evgeniy K. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2012, 09:50   #25
robnitro
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NYC area, NY
Default

If the titan is making the same power but without smoke, it may be bigger and better atomization of the fuel, but with smaller window. I dislike it when people compare nozzles at different smoke levels. Also, they say that they have to adjust the nozzles pop pressure to get them to flow a bit more than PP764.

From what I have seen, the Titan nozzles have a slightly bigger needle, more inertia for the injection event. Maybe this helps the nozzles work well in midrange but not top end. OR maybe these nozzles change the injection timing, so you may be getting less timing at the top end. There are too many variables to take account for with nozzles. What matters to me is the fuel econonomy and smoke level for a given power level!

I can say that they are leaps and bounds better than my bosio sprint .216 nozzles. Those nozzles were running very good balance too, but it may just be that my tune prefers nozzles in the size of PP764. I haven't balanced either set. The titans measure less than +- 0.30 on each nozzle in group 013!
__________________
Titan 764,11mm IP,VNT17(clickforBoost),3 bar MAP,ColtStg2,Whitbread Ported Head,ebay FMIC,2.5"exhaust+cat,lift pump,Koni Reds,wagon springs -- Check your case relief valve for IP issues!

Last edited by robnitro; April 14th, 2012 at 09:52.
robnitro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2012, 12:48   #26
Midwesthick
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Milwaukee
TDI(s): 1998 VW TDI
Fuel Economy: 45+
Default

I am completely happy with my setup personally. Check out my signature for what I have man. I am soon doing FMIC not SMIC with 2in piping, and 2.5inDP w/ 2.5in catback and then prolly VNT17. The PP764's allow you to perform better as you upgrade the car, do it right the first time IMO
__________________
PP764, Kerma tune, swiss-cheesed airbox, VR6 clutch kit, boost gauge Koni STR.T struts, 14in BMW bottle cap rims and more to come
Midwesthick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2012, 11:10   #27
Evgeniy K.
Veteran Member
 
Evgeniy K.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ukraine, Zaporozhye
Default

R520 it the right way i think.
I just ask about "why Titan764 are so small" because i compare it to 0.225 and feen no difference in power and cant see smoke at the same boost as i had with 0.225.

I think they are really 0.216 764 with some more needle volume.
__________________
My MK4 1.9 TDI 3-DR AT R520, 2260@4-1 Manifold,
http://www.golf-club.org.ua/forum/vi...=31522&start=0
Wife's MK 2 1.9 TDI, 3-DR, 5sp, R520, 2260, etc.
http://www.golf-club.org.ua/forum/vi...0414&start=180
Self chipped.
Evgeniy K. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2012, 16:40   #28
robnitro
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NYC area, NY
Default

It can be bigger than .225 and give same power but less smoke. That depends on the injection window and spray quality. That is why some people years ago when .205 was popular, were making same power as people with stock .184, but with less smoke. Also, they got better economy even though holes were bigger!

With the Titan, you might be able to change IQ to a lower number at idle to give more fuel, as I was able to do. I went from .216 to Titan764... from a bit of smoke to none, with IQ adjustment (hammer mod) I was able to get the same bit of smoke back by making the pump inject more, with an increase in power.

BTW, in previous posts Drivbiwire explained that the size of the holes don't explain everything. That is where pop pressures and injection windows come in, which are tuned by someone who balances injectors, like him or Frank06.
__________________
Titan 764,11mm IP,VNT17(clickforBoost),3 bar MAP,ColtStg2,Whitbread Ported Head,ebay FMIC,2.5"exhaust+cat,lift pump,Koni Reds,wagon springs -- Check your case relief valve for IP issues!
robnitro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2012, 15:22   #29
Evgeniy K.
Veteran Member
 
Evgeniy K.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ukraine, Zaporozhye
Default

Something *** strange. After long time vag-com-log i saw, that actual boost are lower than requested, and full go-pedal was 2620-2670mbar.

I chipped before for my pre-0.225 nozzle, and actual were=request. Full go-pedal holds 2700mbar easy.

So, only one on my mind - this titan 764 are smaller?
Yes, it's nise for smoke-level, but they feels like "smaller".

the IQ with my old 0.225 and new titan 764 set to 6mgR, if i set 5 or lower - it make some shake with light load (example "AC on") at iddle.

As i wrote before, maybe i had bigger than 0.225 (0.240, 0.260 was on shop) because of blind-eye seller .
who exactly test titan's by flow?
__________________
My MK4 1.9 TDI 3-DR AT R520, 2260@4-1 Manifold,
http://www.golf-club.org.ua/forum/vi...=31522&start=0
Wife's MK 2 1.9 TDI, 3-DR, 5sp, R520, 2260, etc.
http://www.golf-club.org.ua/forum/vi...0414&start=180
Self chipped.
Evgeniy K. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2012, 16:02   #30
Seatman
Veteran Member
 
Seatman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Scotland
Fuel Economy: No idea
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evgeniy K. View Post
it make some shake with light load (example "AC on") at iddle.
That shake thing seems to be a common problem with the AHF engine itself
__________________
My gt tdi estate oem type build thing
2001 Mk4 golf 1.9tdi ALH, Bosio PP764 nozzles setup by Project-power (.co.uk) and custom tune by Nytrix tuning


Seatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
vr6 clutch/g60 flywheel ok to use w/ .234 nozzles vnt 17/22? Texas_sky TDI Power Enhancements 4 November 28th, 2011 10:37
VW MK4 VE Titan 520 Injector Nozzle Set (.216) $220 crunchtime2k Private TDI Items for Sale/Wanted 4 September 14th, 2011 19:01
VW MK4 VE Titan 520 Injector Nozzle Set (.216) crunchtime2k Private TDI Items for Sale/Wanted 27 August 21st, 2011 22:17
~~~ What's the SIZE of the 3 TORX SCREWS in the vnt-15 turbo? ~~~ goodkingharry TDI 101 2 March 25th, 2010 12:56
VNT Hybrid Setup - Largest Compressor Size Able To Fit? Fabia TDi TDI Power Enhancements 27 March 22nd, 2007 07:44


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2014
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2013, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.17221 seconds with 10 queries
[Output: 138.37 Kb. compressed to 115.89 Kb. by saving 22.48 Kb. (16.25%)]