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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old January 12th, 2012, 09:10   #31
JSWTDI09
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Originally Posted by VW Freak View Post
My reply is a bit late, I had to register as a new member. Have you consider Unitronic Stage 1, it is comparable in performance as Malone Stage 2. It is reversible to stk at your choice. But I made 2 visits to the dealer & they have seen nothing. I love its performance & smoothness. I will get my DSG flash in a couple of days & I can share then the difference.
I considered Unitronic, Malone, Revo, and a few others. My decision was based mainly on which tuner had a dealer local to my area.

You mentioned that the Unitronic tune can be reversed to stock. Can this be done by the user (like Revo) or do you have to go back to your dealer/installer? If you have to go back to the dealer - then ANY tune can be reversed to stock in this way.

I looked at the Unitronic site you linked to and they state their stage 1 tune gives you 175hp and 295 lbft of torque. This is very close to what all of the other tuners claim with a stage 1 tune (not equivalent to a stage 2). The difference is small enough that it could easily be the dyno used (plus or minus about 2%).

Assuming you are using a known competent tuner, I still believe the best tune is the one with a convenient dealer. What is most important (IMHO), is that you can get service without having to drive 500 miles or more. I would have loved to have gotten a Malone tune (since Mark is a supporter of this site), but where I live, there are no Unitronic, or Malone, dealers conveniently located.

Have Fun!

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Old January 12th, 2012, 09:28   #32
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Originally Posted by redneckmba View Post
From my experience with F-250 diesels equipped with EGT gauges and programmer modifications:

I WOULD NOT TOW WITH A TUNED PROGRAMMER unless the tune was specifically made for towing. Even then, only half the rated load.

From my observations, even with a mild towing tune in the diesels, EGTs can really soar. Towing 7,000 lbs with minimal frontal area (only about 1/2 the rating of an F-250) up a mountain on US 93 in north Arizona, EGTs were just at the redline (1150F) for several miles. And I was driving 5 mph below the speed limit. After that, I stopped towing with anything but the stock program.

Towing requires higher output for longer periods of time as it takes longer to pass and accellerate. Most tunes push the limits which is ok for short bursts. Unless you want to risk burning stuff up, I would stick to the product that allows you to go back to stock so you can safely tow.

Not in anyway disagreeing with your statement and as the only switchable tuner in this application i'm aware of your suggestion would really point people in our direction.

But I wanted to point out as I have mentioned in other threads that all of these tunes are capable of basically detuning themselves if need be. We have not seen any evidence of any tuner who has disabled any of the factory EGT protections. In the event that EGTs approach the limit even if they approach too quickly but do not hit the limit the car will detune itself back down to stock and even below that if needed. Some of the tunes on the market that are making higher hp claims will do this right on the dyno, you might make one pull that makes 40hp but then the next makes 15 and the third makes stock. While that may not be great for power it at least proves that everything works like stock.

The EDC17 engine management system is quite remarkable in that sense.


Personal note.. really 1150F had you concerned? not really a powerstroke fan to begin with but if that is a legit limit they just completely lost me.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 10:07   #33
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Flashed via the ODB II Port for my 2009, 2011 & 2012 done directly on the ECU board, but the open the dood of the ODB II for further updates. + 40 HP + 60 lbs/ft.
On Normal driving improve fuel efficiency, on sporty rides : Impressive, especially in S mode of the DSG. At any point in time the car car be brought back to stk via the ODB port again. I visited their HC located in Laval , Qc & they are quite serious & professional. They focus on VW, Audi & Porsche. Browse their site & watch Dyno post for this engine in particular. I am verry satisfied and strongly reccomend it.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 10:13   #34
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Originally Posted by VW Freak View Post
Flashed via the ODB II Port for my 2009, 2011 & 2012 done directly on the ECU board, but the open the dood of the ODB II for further updates. + 40 HP + 60 lbs/ft.
On Normal driving improve fuel efficiency, on sporty rides : Impressive, especially in S mode of the DSG. At any point in time the car car be brought back to stk via the ODB port again. I visited their HC located in Laval , Qc & they are quite serious & professional. They focus on VW, Audi & Porsche. Browse their site & watch Dyno post for this engine in particular. I am verry satisfied and strongly reccomend it.

What he was asking/saying is can it be switched through the port or only flashed.

Any tuner can flash a car back to stock at anytime. However on 2010+ applications flashing a car back to 100% true stock relocks the ecu and requires it to be removed and opened again in order to reinstall the performance software. If a modified stock file is installed that does not relock the ecu then it is just as detectable to the dealer system as a modified performance file would be and its really a waste of time.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 10:20   #35
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To go back to stk it has to be done by one of their authorized dealer, as the stk ECU data reside on Unitronic server. I heard of a potential tool/ interface available to user to do it themself, but not yet available. I don't want to go back to stk anyway. And the Dealer can't trace their flash. If they drive the car they may see optimized performance obviously. As far of optimized values published on their site, they are minimum garanteed values. Each ECU type may vary a couples of HP. I Have their Rev 3 version and it is 179 hp. I din't pay to get a specific dyno run on my car. I trust them.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 10:29   #36
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To go back to stk it has to be done by one of their authorized dealer, as the stk ECU data reside on Unitronic server.
I could flash your car back to 100% stock today, Malone could, rocketchip could.. Even VW could but they can only update they can't flash the same software level basically anyone with the stock file could

There is nothing specific to your car that makes the read they took work only on your car or the stock file i have not work on your car. The read then write is simply a part of their flash system which can be good and bad at the same time.

Quote:
I heard of a potential tool/ interface available to user to do it themself, but not yet available. I don't want to go back to stk anyway. And the Dealer can't trace their flash. If they drive the car they may see optimized performance obviously.
Again if you flashed back to a modified stock file to work with the unlocked ecu then it would be detectable. If you flashed with a 100% stock file it would relock the ecu and need to be opened again before modified software could be used in it.

The dealer can trace the flash theirs, mine, malones, rocketchip anyone.. They have been able to for years but just only alerted their dealers to what to check in the past month or so.


The bottom line though is VW nor their dealers really care about modified cars in 2012.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 10:40   #37
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Thanks for the tutorial, I am a newbie aroud here and still on the pink cloud of my recent Flash.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 10:36   #38
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Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
Personal note.. really 1150F had you concerned? not really a powerstroke fan to begin with but if that is a legit limit they just completely lost me.

Idk where he got that info but 1150 is no where near the limit. He could ride at temp forever. Over 1300 is where the concern comes in but only after a longer period of time.
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Old January 16th, 2012, 17:38   #39
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Idk where he got that info but 1150 is no where near the limit. He could ride at temp forever. Over 1300 is where the concern comes in but only after a longer period of time.
I had a 7.3 PSD as well. It depends on where your thermocouple is located. Post turbo, 1050/1100 F is about the max; pre turbo is around 1300 F. If you run much more than that on a regular basis, the heat-cycling can damage your turbine wheel. Bits and pieces missing can cause an unbalanced wheel, which will make short work of the bearing

Some folks don't like Gale Banks, but here's an interesting article from the Banks Power site: http://www.bankspower.com/techarticl...T-is-Important
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Old January 16th, 2012, 19:51   #40
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I had a 7.3 PSD as well. It depends on where your thermocouple is located. Post turbo, 1050/1100 F is about the max; pre turbo is around 1300 F. If you run much more than that on a regular basis, the heat-cycling can damage your turbine wheel. Bits and pieces missing can cause an unbalanced wheel, which will make short work of the bearing

Some folks don't like Gale Banks, but here's an interesting article from the Banks Power site: http://www.bankspower.com/techarticl...T-is-Important

Well if that's true I don't know how anybody I know still has a diesel truck that is still running right then. My dads truck (6.4 Powerstroke) has seen right at 1450 degrees and my buddys Dmax saw almost 1600 while racing my old truck...

What I have always read on the forums and everything is over 1300 is where you should be cautious as that is the melting point of aluminum. I guess I could be wrong though

Found this when I read threw that article you posted.....
So the big question is, what constitutes excessive EGT? If everything is working properly, 1250 to 1300 F. is a safe turbine inlet temperature, even for sustained running, mile after mile. Above 1300 F. things can start to get edgy. Remember, excessive EGT damage is cumulative. Over 1400 F., you're usually gambling against a stacked deck and it's only a matter of time until you lose. The higher the EGT, the shorter that time will be.

Last edited by Powerstroke GONE TDI; January 16th, 2012 at 20:00. Reason: Added a paragraph from the Banks article
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Old January 16th, 2012, 20:16   #41
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I know I am sure I will hear some negative comments regarding this post but I would strongly suggest a tuner that is no longer mentioned much here on this forum. I just got my ECU back today from Upsolute for a stage 1 tune for my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition. HRC-E.B., if you are looking for durability and reliability, Upsolute has had the CR tune out for quite some time and has not run into any known issues. They have been a TDI tuner in Europe(a place where 80% of the cars are diesel....) for over 10 years and chipped my 1997 Jetta TDi over 4 years ago and I have run almost 150k with out one hic-up. Upsolute does not have the "customization" like some tuners, like with the emissions equipment removed, but my car now finally feels more like a "Cup Edition" should. I didn't have to lay a hand on the exhaust or intake and drove it all day long and I was grinning, the entire time, ear to ear. On the highway I even noticed slightly higher MPG's. I do not work for Upsolute.... I am just, once again, extremely satisfied and hope you and others here may consider this option for a reliable tune on your CR TDI. Feel free to message me if you have any questions about my experience with the tune so far.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 07:44   #42
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I had a 7.3 PSD as well. It depends on where your thermocouple is located. Post turbo, 1050/1100 F is about the max; pre turbo is around 1300 F. If you run much more than that on a regular basis, the heat-cycling can damage your turbine wheel. Bits and pieces missing can cause an unbalanced wheel, which will make short work of the bearing

Some folks don't like Gale Banks, but here's an interesting article from the Banks Power site: http://www.bankspower.com/techarticl...T-is-Important

post turbine EGTs are worthless since the gases expand and cool as well as thinner tubing walls allow more heat out. In a wastegated application it becomes even more worthless.

That being said 1300F is well below the limits of any turbine wheel I have ever seen or heard of. The same turbo bolted to a petrol application would see that at part throttle and be capable of seeing 1600+ sustained. The turbine wheel is not coming a part at 1300F.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 13:09   #43
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When I got my car retuned I was advised by two different tuners to return it to the original tuner to get the stock tune flashed back on. The original tuner had no issue doing this for me.
BTW the exhaust gets hot as hell! Especially during regen! No DPF and your melting your bumper when it hits regen.
I think every tuner on here has a good tune and would not knock any of them they all have been tuning cars for years. I ran the F1 tune for almost 40k miles no issues at all but since he did not offer up a solid stage2 I went with another company. Everyone here seems to knock F1 but the tune was really pretty good and I wish the stage 2 he did for me could have worked out better. I'm now looking to do manifold and turbo upgrades as I see the car can actually be a beast!
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Old January 20th, 2012, 13:46   #44
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Chris at Revotech explained the difference between switching back to stock and flashing back to stock. What hasn't been answered is what is the risk of flashing the ECU for performance and the dealer during one of the scheduled maintenance visits upgrades or reflashes it back to stock? Did you just waste $500 and have to pay it again to have the performance tunes flashed again?
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Old January 20th, 2012, 14:00   #45
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Chris at Revotech explained the difference between switching back to stock and flashing back to stock. What hasn't been answered is what is the risk of flashing the ECU for performance and the dealer during one of the scheduled maintenance visits upgrades or reflashes it back to stock? Did you just waste $500 and have to pay it again to have the performance tunes flashed again?

Most tuners (including Revo) will re-flash for free if the dealer overwrites your tune. However, be prepared to have your receipt to prove you already paid for the tune. Also, the dealer might charge you a labor charge for his time.

Also keep in mind that for 2010 and newer TDIs, any dealer re-flash will re-install the locking software, so the ECU will have to be removed again and the locking software disabled (or removed) again. If you had to send your ECU to the tuner the first time, you will have to do it again. If your tuner is local to you they will have to pull your ECU out again.

Have Fun!

Don
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