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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old December 27th, 2011, 09:14   #1
HRC-E.B.
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Default 2012 TDi Chip

Hey guys,

Is there a consensus on the value of the Neuspeed Powerflash bench flash for newer CR TDis vs Malone's Stage 1 tune?

Based on all the rave comments on the Malone tune, it seems pretty clear that it is very very good and provides the most gains available. On the other hand, the Neuspeed tune appears to push things slightly less, in that the torque gains are not as huge, but start a bit lower down the rev range.

Since either would likely void my warranty, I would be interested in getting the one that provides the most safety and reliability. Neuspeed specifically advertise that they maintain stock safety protocols relating to exhaust and intake temperatures, among other things. What about Malone?

I would like to enjoy a peppier car, but not at the price of taking risks with regard to durability and reliability. So is one tune effectively "more conservative" or "safer" than the other?

Lastly, can either of these be had with a switch allowing to shift between stock tune and chipped tune, for instance when taking the car back to the dealer for any reason?

Is it possible to replace the anti-tamper screws to avoid leaving tell-tale signs of ECU tampering?

Thanks for the info!
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Old December 27th, 2011, 15:55   #2
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It would be very cool if some of the remap vendors would address this issue directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRC-E.B. View Post

Is it possible to replace the anti-tamper screws to avoid leaving tell-tale signs of ECU tampering?

Thanks for the info!
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Old December 27th, 2011, 16:04   #3
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I know of one member here who got a Neuspeed tune and had problems with running into torque limits (temporary loss of power). It is very possible that Neuspeed has dealt with this issue already. Any competent tuner will respect EGT and other safety limits in their software. I'm sure that Mark (Malone) fits into this category.

I only know of one tuner that allows you to switch back and forth between tuned and stock maps and that is Revo. They sell an SPS (Serial Port Switch) which allows exactly this function. You can switch it back to stock before taking the car into the dealer and the tune will not be obvious during a test drive. This, however, does not mean it is undetectable by someone who really knows what they are doing. VW dealers are not generally known for having these "expert" on staff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRC-E.B. View Post
Is it possible to replace the anti-tamper screws to avoid leaving tell-tale signs of ECU tampering?

Yes! http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Security_Bolt/ES471999/


Have Fun!

Don
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Old December 27th, 2011, 16:10   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL A3 View Post
It would be very cool if some of the remap vendors would address this issue directly.
I tend to agree. At a whopping 67 cents each, tuners should have a supply of these and replace them routinely. Who knows. some tuners might do this already. The problem with replacing them yourself is that the shipping will cost a lot more than the price of two bolts.

Have Fun!

Don
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2MicronTech Pure Flow and Contain Flow CR fuel system modifications
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Old December 27th, 2011, 20:59   #5
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Thanks. Upon further investigation of the variety of tuning options and relatively "local" vendor shops, it does seem that Malone and Revo are the two most likely candidates for me to go with, and probably the two best bets.

Of the two, Revo still seems like the most "conservative" options, but I may be wrong.

What are people's experiences with both, especially in terms of reliability and durability?

To give a bit of an indication, I will keep the car otherwise stock (engine wise). It's a 6MT that I drive daily and mostly gently. The tune would be to benefit from extra power for driving up highway ramps, highway passing, and the occasional fun, but the car will still be driven mainly with fuel economy in mind. I may use the car to tow a small enclosed trailer a few days per year, being reasonable in terms of speeds.

I wouldn't want anything to overheat, wear prematurely or fail, so I want a tune that will not tax or wear out the HPFP by constantly running it at max pressure in daily driving situations or that would cook the turbo, etc. I am hoping that my car would maintain stock reliability and durability and the tune that offers as much of that as possible will be the one I will go with.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 09:16   #6
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malone offers stage one and stage two correct? From posts here he does stay within the limits for EGT and fuel rail pressures. Plus It'd just be another reflash when you take the sawsall to the DPF.

I don't think I'd have any problem giving my money to malone.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 22:57   #7
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APR has hinted that their chip will be available in the very near future (winter to early spring 2012). I'm holding out to see how their tune looks. And knowing them, it'll be flashed on without having to remove the ECU from the vehicle (I'm hoping).

Recent post in APR's Facebook page:

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Old December 30th, 2011, 06:04   #8
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From my understanding the Malone tune and Exhaust combo lower EGT's and keeping fuel rail pressures stock but upping the boost levels by a little.

Also from reading into tunes before I purchased mine, it seems Revo and Neuspeed seem to be on the tame side but still offer a lot of reliability to the tune and vehicle. There was a little bit of over boost or torque issues with Neuspeed and revo I thought on Vortex a while back, but I think they got it all worked out.

If i were to base my purchase souly on customer service it would be Mark at Malone and Kyle at PDE. Both have got beyond the call of duty to get back to me and help with any issues, any questions, and all around just awesome.
Cant say anything negative about the other companies since I have not delt with them, but just reading what I see online both have mix feelings.

Like "AMD IS THE BEST" said, he is holding out for APR. In the past I had APR chips on both my old 1.8T audi's and loved it. very reliable, awesome tune and power. never had any issues with either.

When I got my TDI I looked into tuness, Malone was already out there making tunes for the TDI's, while APR and AWE were not. I did phone APR a couple times about when they were thinking about a tune, every time I got the same response "at the moment nothing is on the board" or " not yet". Also at SOWO last year they were there in person, asked again, and still nothing on the table or too far in the future to see.
Now that they posted on FB about having a tune soon, you really dont know when though. Last I heard it was going to be this time right now, like last week.
And seeing how its not out yet, maybe this spring, or summer???
They still have to have mules to test the tune, and final all of it, plus not sure if they are thinking about doing a DPF or EGT delete either.

(Note: On a customer service aspect of APR, I did have serious trouble with them. I bought the Carbonio Intake from them, being it Carbonio makes them and APR sells them, they still should back up the product.
After installing the intake, after a few weeks, was great, good intake, ok.
But noticed the engine cover was hitting the intake and making a nice gash in the side of the CarbonFiber. Now I looked at the intake, its not very adjustable, but you can slide it a little left or right, it was all the way to the right, so there was just no more room for it to move. I had to trim down my own engine cover with a wizz wheel to make it clear the intake. I emailed APR Customer support, with pictures of my issue. After some emails I kept getting bad anwsers, " did you get in a wreck", "has your engine been moved", " is this a new car or used", "did you install it yourself" , "try sliding it to one side for more room" ,
This is a brand new car, like less then 10K on the clock, no wrecks, drive to work and back, no issues, and I'm a VW Tech.
So after getting no where, I asked for a new intake. Customer support said they will contact carbonio on the issue and get back to me, and they never got back to me. I have emailed them the same list of emails over and over a couple times and asked where my new intake was or a new solution to the issue. NOTHING, so kinda sucks)
End Rant: sorry.

So overall I would go with Malone, also your in Canada so why not.
I have had my Malone stage 2 tune for over 5K miles and have loved every minute of it and would not have had it any other way.


On a side note, Has anyone read the comments that people post in the APR TDI Tune feedback? They asked what other mods would you like besides the Tune,Intake, and some exhaust tips. The comments were horrid, almost all were from 2.0T gas people with no clue.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 16:57   #9
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Subscribed. Looking to get a stage one as well, with similar concerns.
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Old December 31st, 2011, 07:19   #10
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I need a tune for my 2006 BEW, DSG New Beetle. 128K miles. I have the new Franko6 Chrome cam and all his headwork. (replaced the engine due to a failed cam follower and the train wreck that resulted) Also, replacing the ceramic glowplugs with metal so I need to change the voltage on that as well.

I never had power issues with the TDI. I commute 100 miles per day to work and cruise at 65to70 mph. A little more power is not a bad thing. What kind of gains do a stage 1 tune get you ?? I am definitely going with Malone.

Happy New Year !!
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Old January 3rd, 2012, 07:38   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRC-E.B. View Post

Is it possible to replace the anti-tamper screws to avoid leaving tell-tale signs of ECU tampering?

Thanks for the info!
This is more up to the installer than the tuner as it is hardware that they remove during the process. Any car that comes into our office we replace the screws. Any customer who sends us an ecu and includes the old screws so we can match them gets new screws sent back. There are several different types of screws so you cannot just generically send back two without seeing the old ones.

We do instruct our dealers to keep them on hand and replace them on every vehicle.
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Old January 3rd, 2012, 07:42   #12
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To the OP - Rawtek on Cote-de-Liesse is an authorized Malone dealer and they have their own chipped (and modded) 2011 Jetta TDI.
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Old January 3rd, 2012, 08:45   #13
Derrel H Green
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRC-E.B. View Post
Hey guys,
Is there a consensus on the value of the Neuspeed Powerflash bench flash for newer CR TDis vs Malone's Stage 1 tune?
Based on all the rave comments on the Malone tune, it seems pretty clear that it is very very good and provides the most gains available. On the other hand, the Neuspeed tune appears to push things slightly less, in that the torque gains are not as huge, but start a bit lower down the rev range.
Since either would likely void my warranty, I would be interested in getting the one that provides the most safety and reliability. Neuspeed specifically advertise that they maintain stock safety protocols relating to exhaust and intake temperatures, among other things. What about Malone?
I would like to enjoy a peppier car, but not at the price of taking risks with regard to durability and reliability. So is one tune effectively "more conservative" or "safer" than the other? [Maybe?]
Lastly, can either of these be had with a switch allowing to shift between stock tune and chipped tune, for instance when taking the car back to the dealer for any reason?
Is it possible to replace the anti-tamper screws to avoid leaving tell-tale signs of ECU tampering?
Thanks for the info!


Had the Neuspeed Tune done in August 2011 on my JSW TDI with DSG, at their facility in Camarillo,
California. $500 cash, no receipts or any kind of paperwork which I found a little strange!

The 'I]tune[/I]' was for the most part well done, and the car really ran well, but sometimes
it would cut back on the power just as it was nearing the upshift point at WOT.
But I learned how to 'live-with-it' and control those every now and then happenings.

For the most part, I did not do that very often, and I did really enjoy the tremendous increase in useable torque especially down in the lower rpm ranges where you drive your TDI most of the time.
I am speaking of from say as low as 1200 to 1400 rpms on up.
Their tune made an entirely new animal out of my JSW, as it seemed like it really woke up the TDI. It made it seem like it was always 'on-the-pipe' and ready to perform at almost any rpm better than before.

The only fault that should be pointed out is evidently a rather common one present within most if not all tunes, that being that IF a person has the DSG transmission, the tranny TCU will often times 'cut-back' on the power just before, when under WOT, the upshift point is approached. But as I said before, I learned how to live with that, and used the Tiptronic feature to advantage. For the most part, I enjoyed the extra torque, especially as it 'came on' at much lower RPMs then before it was 'chipped' or 'tuned.'

Someone will test-drive my 2010 Silver JSW once CarMax gets it ready for market and if that person has driven any others, will buy it because, the way it is now, there in no comparison between a 'stock' TDI and my 'tuned' JSW.

For those thinking of tuning theirs, you will wonder after you have that done, why you waited to get it done! There is that much difference. That is the way the cars should come from the factory originally.

An added plus is slightly better F E if you do not enjoy the added power all the time.
Especially when driven normally. Of course, if a person were to
be kicking it all the time, F E will probably be less!



D
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Old January 3rd, 2012, 10:28   #14
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And as between Malone Stage 1 and Revo:

- is it mostly similar and therefore are differences between dealers more important than any distinction between the two tunes?

- are there differences in total power output?

- are there differences in power curve and useability of the power?

- is one tune more conservative than the other in terms of EGT, fuel pressure (I want to make sure not to overtax the HPFP either by running it above stock pressure or at increased pressure more of the time)?

I find there are no back-to-back tests or comparisons of the two tune online, which I found would make for a nice shoot-out for a magazine or something. Anyway, I am looking for the one that will provide the most enjoyment and the most peace of mind in terms of safety and reliability, since both appear to be available close by.

Thanks!
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Old January 3rd, 2012, 10:41   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRC-E.B. View Post

I find there are no back-to-back tests or comparisons of the two tune online, which I found would make for a nice shoot-out for a magazine or something. Anyway, I am looking for the one that will provide the most enjoyment and the most peace of mind in terms of safety and reliability, since both appear to be available close by.

Thanks!
We would all love to see real back-to-back comparisons of various tunes, but this would be an expensive test to run. It would be ideal if all tests were run on the same car, but that would require the car to be re-tuned many times. Also all of the testing would have to be done on the same dyno. Some tuners will "shop around" to find the most generous dyno and them publish their graphs. There can be a lot of variability between different dynos. This just makes the decisions more difficult.

Most tuner's stage 1 tunes seem to all be pretty similar in their results. The emissions systems demand pretty close control over EGTs, so what they can do is somewhat limited. Often the choice of a tuner has more to do with convenience than power. In other words, who has a dealer near you who can do it. Prices and results all seem to be very comparable.

Have Fun!

Don
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Dieselgeek Shortshifter & Panzer Plate (my favorite & my smartest mods)
2MicronTech Pure Flow and Contain Flow CR fuel system modifications
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