Is My Manual Transmission Really Going Bad?

Hello.

My 5 speed Manual Trani is shifting very very hard for me.....

It goes hard into every gear all the time. And a lot of the time it may not go into 2nd or 3rd at all. Shifting up or shifting down is the same. It does help to rev it and double clutch to get it into 2nd.

I have triple checked the cable adjustment.....
I changed the trani oil with the correct stuff.......

It is time to do something about it now as I can barely drive it.

Do you think it is in the shift linkage?
Is it something in my trani going bad?
Could it be my clutch hydraulics?

Just a note: my brake fluid has a mysterious very slow leak somewhere.

I would appreciate you help!!!!!!!

I have known 2 people personally that had similar stories.
They were ready to replace the transmissions.
They put in LubroMoly transmission fluid from IDParts.com, and it fixed the problems - or masked them - but in any case it shifts fine, no noise, no problems.

It is a fairly cheap straw to grasp...

Do you have a problem shifting this with the engine off? If it shifts through the gears a lot better with engine off, I would be checking for a clutch problem.

I used that exact fluid when I changed it......

I'll check the shifting with the car off.

Try bleeding the clutch slave cylinder, won't cost any money and a small amount of time.

TDIPOWERMAN said:

Just a note: my brake fluid has a mysterious very slow leak somewhere.

I would appreciate you help!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

The clutch hydraulics use the brake fluid reservoir for fluid. A slow leak in the clutch hydraulics can cause loss of brake fluid and allow air to get into the system. Try bleeding the clutch slave cylinder and see if shifting improves, then go after the leak.

Good luck.

Does it grind when you repeatedly shift into reverse with the clutch pedal pushed down the whole time, the engine running, and the car at rest?

If so, your clutch is dragging, spinning the input shaft to the transmission. Grinding it into reverse breaks the clutch loose and halts the input shaft. When you shift into reverse a second time, that input shaft should still be at rest unless the clutch is grabbing.

What you are describing was the exact failure mode of my clutch. You would expect that a clutch would lose its grip as it wears out but I found the opposite to be true.

dalchri said:

Does it grind when you repeatedly shift into reverse with the clutch pedal pushed down the whole time, the engine running, and the car at rest?

If so, your clutch is dragging, spinning the input shaft to the transmission. Grinding it into reverse breaks the clutch loose and halts the input shaft. When you shift into reverse a second time, that input shaft should still be at rest unless the clutch is grabbing.

What you are describing was the exact failure mode of my clutch. You would expect that a clutch would lose its grip as it wears out but I found the opposite to be true.

Click to expand...

You may be right I will check it out. I have too many mods for my Vr6 clutch and it has been slipping a little every now and then for over a year.

#7 x2. That is a very good test to help determine if it's clutch related. I am by no means an expert, though I have changed my own clutch. imho what OP is describing (general difficulty in many gears) suggests to me CLUTCH more than tranny. And ^^ x2 again: If there is a slow fluid leak somewhere, that could very well allow air into the clutch hydraulics and cause failure to fully disengage. Note that the clutch gets its fluid from a tap that's about half way up the side of the brake reservoir. So a leaking clutch cannot fully drain the brake reservoir. But as long as there's a known slow leak, and not known where, I think I'd be inspecting all 4 corners and the clutch master & slave, to find out where the leak is. Hope it's something simple like a slave cylinder.....

#6 x2 The fact that it is "EVERY" gear "ALL" the time, always strengthens the clutch hypothesis.

Thanks for all the great info!!!! I'm hoping that bleeding the slave cylinder will fix it and if not then I believe it will be the clutch.

The clutch and put in reverse test proved to create a lot of grinding and hard shifting so you hit the nail on the head.

Also be sure to lubricate the linkage mechanism that is under the air filter box. Mine was very stiff and I lubed it up and made a world of difference.

My understanding is that this product:
http://www.metalmanparts.com/product.sc?productId=466&categoryId=-1
would be appropriate for your 2005 and newer vehicles, but not recommended for a MKIV, where the OEM VW here:
http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1438
is more compatible with the synchros.

DanG144 said:

I have known 2 people personally that had similar stories.
They were ready to replace the transmissions.
They put in LubroMoly transmission fluid from IDParts.com, and it fixed the problems - or masked them - but in any case it shifts fine, no noise, no problems.

It is a fairly cheap straw to grasp...

Click to expand...

I have not heard of anyone performing this test but this is something I thought of...

The only way I can think to definitively isolate the problem to the hydraulics or the clutch is to remove the slave cylinder and manually actuate the clutch lever. Maybe you could attach a piece of wood in place of the slave cylinder and turn a screw to push the clutch lever?

With the clutch lever pushed the whole way in, you would then repeat the shifting into reverse test. Of course, you gotta be real careful to brace the car so you don't go rolling off somewhere. You also gotta find a way to start the car without pushing in the clutch pedal and destroying the slave cylinder since it is removed.

Just an idea...

BTW, I also saw in a post a while back that someone actually measured the distance that the clutch lever should be into the transmission case if you can find it.

There was a recent thread with a person who did a measurement of the distance from the slave opening to the clutch release lever.

I wouldn't recommend putting a random force on the lever as it may fail if overstressed.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=333365&page=2&highlight=clutch+release+lever
check post 16.

TDIPOWERMAN said:

Just a note: my brake fluid has a mysterious very slow leak somewhere.
I would appreciate you help!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

n1das said:

The clutch hydraulics use the brake fluid reservoir for fluid. A slow leak in the clutch hydraulics can cause loss of brake fluid and allow air to get into the system. Try bleeding the clutch slave cylinder and see if shifting improves, then go after the leak.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

n1das nailed it, I think. The tap for the clutch is actually pretty far up on the side of the brake reservoir and if the level drops below about 3/4, air will get into the clutch hydraulic circuit causing exactly what you describe.

First thing to do is to bleed the clutch without introducing air in the clutch circuit. If the clutch is disengaging completely, you should be able to, with the engine idling, clutch out and shifter in neutral, push the clutch in, count to 2 and engage 1rst without grinding.

At this point, the gear oil has absolutely nothing to do with how the clutch engages and disengages. changing to some "miracle" gear oil will not fix a malfunctioning clutch.

If you can't engage 1rst as above without grinding, then the possible causes are:

• Air in clutch hydraulic circuit.
• Leaking slave or master cylinder.
• Bent, worn or broken release fork
• Warped clutch pressure plate.
• Disintegrated throw out bearing.

Ol Rattler what about a worn synchro on 1st? Or does it not have one? I usually have to wait 3 to 4 seconds to shift into first...if I do it quickly it will grind a bit, or if I do it normal without waiting it will be difficult, but around 3 or 4 seconds there is a sweet spot. I always just attributed it to the shafts slowing down from being in neutral.

This needed pause is my only gripe with my tranny; but it does have 300k miles on it, so I give it a break...maybe I should bleed the clutch sometime?

OK....... I bled the whole brake system and the clutch hydraulics.

I believe there was a little air in the clutch system. The clutching feels better. If I hold the clutch for 3-5 seconds and then put in in reverse or 1st it will go in and out easy. So that test shows good.

With the car off it shifts pretty good. With the car running it shifts very nice through all gears at a stand still with the clutch depressed.

But...... when I'm driving, 2nd, 3rd, and 4rth sometimes just don't work at all....... sometimes I can get them to work by reving the car and pumping the clutch a little. Pumping the clutch seems vital.

There is no grinding of gears ever, it just refuses to engage. It feels exactly like the linkage isn't adjusted properly. But I'm postive it is. Could it be that some link of the shift linkage is worn or broken?

I forgot about the syncros so reverse would be the best gear for checking for clutch disengagement as it doesn't have a syncro. 3-5 seconds does seem like a long time for the input shaft to come to a stop.

I just checked my A5 (cold, idling, in neutral) and pretty much as soon as the petal hit the floor it would go into reverse without issue.

TDIPOWERMAN said:

But...... when I'm driving, 2nd, 3rd, and 4rth sometimes just don't work at all....... sometimes I can get them to work by reving the car and pumping the clutch a little. Pumping the clutch seems vital.

Click to expand...

Sounds like air in the system. When you bleed, don't let the reservoir level drop more than about 1 inch. You might be letting the level go to low and putting air back in the clutch system.

If the shifts fine when shut off, then the linkage adjustment is probably O.K.

Ol'Rattler said:

3-5 seconds does seem like a long time for the input shaft to come to a stop.

I just checked my A5 (cold, idling, in neutral) and pretty much as soon as the petal hit the floor it would go into reverse without issue.


Sounds like air in the system. When you bleed, don't let the reservoir level drop more than about 1 inch. You might be letting the level go to low and putting air back in the clutch system.

If the shifts fine when shut off, then the linkage adjustment is probably O.K.

Click to expand...

Sorry I don't know what I was trying to say..... It will go into reverse immediately after I clutch.

When I bled it, I used a power bleeder so no air was introduced........ the reservoir was chuck full the whole time.

O.K. Still, it does sound like the clutch isn't releasing completely.

Did you ever nail down were the brake fluid leak is? Before we move on to other things I would make sure you are not leaking fluid from the clutch slave cylinder or the clutch master cylinder.

A leaking clutch master cylinder would leak brake fluid inside the car were the rod for the clutch goes through the firewall or on the engine side were the master cylinder is bolted to the firewall.

A leaking clutch slave is a little harder to spot. To check it you need to remove the slave from the transaxle and pull the boot back. If you have fluid inside the boot, then the slave needs replaced. Make sure you do not push the clutch petal down with the slave removed because it will overextend the slave, destroying it.

Proceding from this point, will most likely involve transaxle removal, unless someone else has some ideas........................

If you end up taking the slave out to check for fluid leakage, you can do the measurement then. At least if you find the release lever bent it will give you a solid reason to take the tranny out (or not to if it measure true).

I have also found bent release levers, and posted measurements of good ones on this site. This failure is not unheard of. It is the reason I always suggest to the owners to use new levers on stock level clutch replacements and boxed levers on upgraded clutches.
If you do the measurements, and check slave cylinder travel, then you are pretty sure you are on the right track.

Ol'Rattler said:

A leaking clutch master cylinder would leak brake fluid inside the car were the rod for the clutch goes through the firewall or on the engine side were the master cylinder is bolted to the firewall.

A leaking clutch slave is a little harder to spot. To check it you need to remove the slave from the transaxle and pull the boot back. If you have fluid inside the boot, then the slave needs replaced. Make sure you do not push the clutch petal down with the slave removed because it will overextend the slave, destroying it.

Click to expand...

I will disagree and say the master cylinder is harder to spot since it will first leak internally and show no visual signs of a problem. Spot on with the slave cylinder.

Just looking in my engine bay right under the slave cylinder there is fluid sitting on top of the trani and leaking down. I don't know where this would be coming from except the slave cylinder......

Maybe I'll need to swing by VW and see if they have them in stock.......

Oh but just another thing to note...... I have a very misterious leack coming under the carpet by the pedals. I blew out the sunroof drain and connected it right and it still happens...... maybe the master cylinder is leaking. maybe its all leaking

Sounds like you just need to change both slave & master to eliminate that possibility. They're wear items anyway.

I don't know enough about clutches to be of much help, but I had a somewhat similar issue with my truck. I had the master cylinder replaced first, but it ended being a bad pilot bearing. And of course at that point it made sense to have my mech replace the clutch while they were there. Though with a known leak it does sound like you have a hydraulic related issue.

I. Am. Frustrated.

I confirmed the fact that the master cylinder was leaking pretty bad down into my carpet. And I saw fluid sitting beneath the slave.
So I spent the $110 and got new parts and installed them today.

My clutch is pretty much the same if not worse. The clutch engages down close to the floor and doesn't come quite up totally.
My method of bleeding was using a power bleeder and I put a whole quart of fluid through the system. Does installing new parts require some special bleeding technique?

I also checked the measurement to the release lever and i have 1/2 inch which seems very reasonable to me.

At idle I can shift through all the gears nicely and it will go into reverse about 1 second after I depress the clutch without grinding.

This test you are doing at idle, is it after driving the car around and experiencing the hard shifting?

Is the hard shifting even with the car cold or does it get worse the longer you drive?