www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2014 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You



Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI 101

TDI 101 Got a simple/basic TDI question? Are you a newbie (new to the forums). Feel free to post your question here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 26th, 2011, 12:27   #1
Flimzy
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Default Need advice: Replace or rebuild injection pump?

The IP in my 2003 TDI just went out. I'm in Guadalajara, Mexico.

A local diesel shop says they can replace it with a new one, parts + labor for $1298 ($17,500 MXN).

Alternately, I could ship the dead one to DFIS for rebuilding, for an estimated $900-$1300 (including international shipping both ways), plus labor.

Clearly, I stand to save a little money with the rebuilt IP, or I might lose some... And the extra hassle of international shipping makes me more interested in the local repair option. But I've heard rumors that well re-built IPs can be better than a new one.

So my real question isn't about the cost of the repair, but more about the reliability of the repair. Is there any reason to prefer a rebuilt IP or a new one?

And to make matters worse, the mechanic who's looking at my IP insisted that my car "has a mechanical IP, therefore it has no ECU." Which doesn't instill a lot of confidence. :/

Should I have my car taken to a local VW dealership instead?

Last edited by Flimzy; October 26th, 2011 at 12:42.
Flimzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:07   #2
jcrews
Veteran Member
 
jcrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Round Rock, TX - VCDS
TDI(s): 2003 Golf
Default

I would expect a DFIS rebuild job to be a little cheaper. A new 10mm pump is $900 (worldimpex). You should call them first, unless you already have.

Rebuilds get the usual 1 year/12000 miles warranty.

What went wrong with yours (what is the core condition)?

You might also consider getting a new timing belt. The only additional labor is loosening the motor mount and changing a few small parts. Make sure the shop uses the specified timing locks.
jcrews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:10   #3
gquenstedt
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Default

Is it just leaking?
__________________
Check out my website: www.gqlaw.us
gquenstedt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:12   #4
Flimzy
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Default

The symptom is that there was air in the fuel line... and my regular mechanic discovered a leaky seal on the IP. That's when he took it to the diesel shop where it is now. Beyond that, I don't know the core condition. I don't speak fluent enough Spanish--especially when it comes to automotive terms--to really ask intelligible questions right now. Although I can probe further if necessary.

The repair from DFIS is quoted at $650-$1000. The additional cost is international shipping and import duties.

The diesel shop is offering me a 3-month warranty. The timing belt was replaced 10k miles ago with a 100k belt kit. I'm not opposed to replacing it again, but this one should be in pretty good shape.

I'm actually a bit nervous about letting this shop set the timing, since they don't think the car even has an ECU... Makes me think they've probably never seen this model of car before... *sigh*
Flimzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:13   #5
Flimzy
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Default

gguenstedt: Yes, it is leaking. (Unless these mechanics have damaged it further)
Flimzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:19   #6
josh8loop
Veteran Member
 
josh8loop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Vero Beach, Fl.
Fuel Economy: 45 MPG City with the previous 01M, 5-speed 60+ MPG City. Always searching for ways to make it better!!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flimzy View Post
gguenstedt: Yes, it is leaking. (Unless these mechanics have damaged it further)


Buy a rebuild kit and Viton head seal from Dieselgeek, and the security bit and do the rebuild yourself while it's in the car. Worse case, if it's one of the seals that aren't accessible with it in the car, remove the IP and replace all the seals. I would think the cost of shipping for the rebuild parts for the IP shoudn't be more than 70 USD or so. You wouldn't need to reset the timing if you don't remove the IP, but will most likely need VagCom to reset the IQ.



Edit-

You may want to replace your fuel filter & thermostatic T "O" rings to help with the air intrusion issue if they haven't been done recently.

..
__________________
2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!

Last edited by josh8loop; October 26th, 2011 at 13:24.
josh8loop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:20   #7
jcrews
Veteran Member
 
jcrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Round Rock, TX - VCDS
TDI(s): 2003 Golf
Default

Unless the unit is leaking from the main shaft seal, you can repair it yourself.

You can get the seals at dieselgeek.com. The ones to be concerned about are the top cover seal, QA to body seal, and the delivery valve head to body seal. As long as you work with obsessive cleanliness and attention to detail (and instructions), you can repair the most common leaks in your own garage, saving you the cost of a rebuild, as long as the pump otherwise works well.

A few of the less common seals require removing and reinstalling the pump, which require the lock tools.
jcrews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:21   #8
Lightflyer1
Veteran Member
 
Lightflyer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Default

http://www.dieselgeek.com/TDI_inject...mp-fullkit.htm

If it is just leaking and you are handy. $21
__________________
Trusted mechanics thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=130044
Lightflyer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:24   #9
jcrews
Veteran Member
 
jcrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Round Rock, TX - VCDS
TDI(s): 2003 Golf
Default

Another note - most of the IP is under high positive pressure, and will not draw air in unless left overnight (hard starting only).

Constant air ingestion is most frequently caused by a bad seal in the fuel filter - either the drain valve, the thermostatic 'T' valve, or the o-rings for that valve. Less often, the pickup will develop hairline cracks and will draw in air when the fuel level drops below the top of the pickup unit.
jcrews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:26   #10
Flimzy
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Default

I just called my mechanic (who more or less speaks English), and he tells me that the diesel shop found that some part (he didn't know which) had "worn down" in the IP, so the problem is apparently worse than just a leak... ? Does this make sense to anyone? ha

I'm guessing this means that the seal kit won't solve my problem. (Darn, I was excited there for a moment)
Flimzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:30   #11
jcrews
Veteran Member
 
jcrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Round Rock, TX - VCDS
TDI(s): 2003 Golf
Default

I would rather see a performance log from VCDS. Unless said shop tore down the entire pump already, such a claim is total crap in my opinion. I.e., demand the evidence to support that claim.

Can you explain what exactly your complaint is? Hard starting, low power, etc?
jcrews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:32   #12
Flimzy
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Default

jcrews: I noticed the air in the fuel line in the morning, after the car had been sitting overnight. It had worked fine, best I could tell, the day before. The first thing my mechanic did to test was run the fuel intake into a can of diesel instead of the fuel tank, and it first started okay, but the second time it failed, and that's when he discovered the leaky seal on the IP.

The pump is already torn apart. And as I alluded to in the paragraph above, the original complaint was that the car would not start after sitting in the drive way over night. When I popped the hood, I saw that the clear fuel line that leads from the fuel filter to the IP was full of air.

Last edited by Flimzy; October 26th, 2011 at 13:37.
Flimzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:36   #13
josh8loop
Veteran Member
 
josh8loop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Vero Beach, Fl.
Fuel Economy: 45 MPG City with the previous 01M, 5-speed 60+ MPG City. Always searching for ways to make it better!!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flimzy View Post
I just called my mechanic (who more or less speaks English), and he tells me that the diesel shop found that some part (he didn't know which) had "worn down" in the IP, so the problem is apparently worse than just a leak... ? Does this make sense to anyone? ha

I'm guessing this means that the seal kit won't solve my problem. (Darn, I was excited there for a moment)

They are probably talking about the internal IP cam. Sometimes the metal wears down and will shed metal particles which will end up in the quantity adjuster area. If it were me, I would want to inspect the quantity adjuster area for metal debris. If there is no debris, then do a simple reseal, change the fuel filter & thermostatic T "O" rings and be done with it. Don't take their word for it, make them prove to you that there is metal on the quantity adjuster.

By the way, heres a great video of a IP reseal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR44StvcXms

..
__________________
2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
josh8loop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:40   #14
Flimzy
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Default

josh8loop: thanks... I'll try to go look at the car/IP tomorrow.
Flimzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2011, 13:41   #15
josh8loop
Veteran Member
 
josh8loop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Vero Beach, Fl.
Fuel Economy: 45 MPG City with the previous 01M, 5-speed 60+ MPG City. Always searching for ways to make it better!!
Default

Come to think of it, quite a few people have worn down cams in the IP and associated metal debris on the quantity adjuster mechanism and never notice any performance issues from it. FWIW


..
__________________
2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
josh8loop is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuel injection pump: replace or rebuild? dgoldsmith VW B5 Passat TDIs 10 November 27th, 2011 13:41
Injection Pump Rebuild SheeB Ontario 18 September 8th, 2011 19:02
Oil pump housing rebuild or replace Watchdawg TDI 101 6 March 11th, 2011 08:24
Injection pump rebuild? mike944 VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 2 September 10th, 2005 08:12
rebuild injection pump caddy shack Vendor & GroupBuy items for sale 2 February 18th, 2005 08:07


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2014
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2013, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.19083 seconds with 10 queries
[Output: 129.41 Kb. compressed to 108.06 Kb. by saving 21.34 Kb. (16.49%)]