Gold TDI Tech vs Subaru Outback

[wreck111]

For those that have had both, your comments are welcome. Out TDI is still being held up at port. Getting tired of this. Our second choice was always the Outback. My wife drives 35K a year so reliability is important. I guess I should not say this is the same sentence as VW? ANyway for those that have had both any comments. Yes the TDI is fun to drive vs nice and quite outback. I wonder after 60K what car will have the best resale and reliability. We still them at 60-70K. I plan on using an additive just in case on the TDI, but the HPFP issue will always be in the back of my head, even though VW said they updated the pump 4 times. They need to extent the warranty to 120K.
Ordered Car
2012 4 Dr Tech package with GTI rear spoiler and DSC.. Relex silver

[Klystron]

My wife recently looked at a 2012 Subaru outback but after quickly decided to wait after talking to one of her co-workers that owns a 2011. The major problem is with shaking in the steering wheel due to a design flaw. They have issued an extensive TSB with steering dampers and such to try and fix or hide the problem but it only makes it a little better.

Google "Subaru Outback steering shake" and you will find A LOT of threads and postings about dealers that don't want to deal with the problem, dealers that try to fix it but make the problem worse, or people that had to go to court to get Subaru to buy their car back. Subaru claims its because of a tire balance issue but even their dealers can't get them balanced right. But even when balanced properly to the point of driving smooth owners are reporting its so sensitive to balance that a few rocks stuck in the tread can make it go from smooth to shaking.

Another major issue is the transmission. The Outback doesn't have the tried and true planetary gear set transmission that most cars use. It uses a continuously variable transmission that uses two pulleys and a steel band to make infinite gear ratios. The problem is they are really not best for heavier vehicles and Subaru has had to do countless numbers of "firmware reflashes" to make them shift smoother.

I've had a forester and outback and really like Subaru's engines and transmissions in the past but they have taken a departure from that in recent years.

[wreck111]

I had three sub's 1999 2001 2003 All good. I know about the shake, no big deal on this. A little shake is better than a big HPFP problem, just a little joke.. If the Golf is released next week than the Golf will be in the driveway if not the Sub, my wife has spoken. The Golf looks great in a 4Dr in reflex, it's a shame you see few of these. The spoiler helps with the look. Other than the pump problem most everything else is the norm with German cars. I have a TDI at our second home that my daughter drives. It gets less than 5K a year so no problems yet, my guess it will get wrecked first ( let's hope not) My Audi has be perfect so who knows. Thanks for the information. It seems you get a lot with the Subaru, I guess cheap american labor vs German precision.

[skywestseth]

Originally Posted by wreck111

I had three sub's 1999 2001 2003 All good. I know about the shake, no big deal on this. A little shake is better than a big HPFP problem, just a little joke.. If the Golf is released next week than the Golf will be in the driveway if not the Sub, my wife has spoken. The Golf looks great in a 4Dr in reflex, it's a shame you see few of these. The spoiler helps with the look. Other than the pump problem most everything else is the norm with German cars. I have a TDI at our second home that my daughter drives. It gets less than 5K a year so no problems yet, my guess it will get wrecked first ( let's hope not) My Audi has be perfect so who knows. Thanks for the information. It seems you get a lot with the Subaru, I guess cheap american labor vs German precision.

Subarus and VWs both have factories in the states and abroad, and as much as I love the Golf TDi. VW has some not so hot products as well.

[2X TDI]

I've owned numerous outbacks, most recent being the 3.0 EB edition, and my son still has an Impreza, so we are fans. Having said that, we currently own an 11 4dr TDI Golf and 09 TDI JSW. The level of refinement in the Golf is in a different league. If it were me, I'd wait for the Golf. It is an awesome car. Don't let all the HPFP noise scare you off, all cars have issues...yes, most don't result in massive damage like the HPFP issue but I'm keeping the faith that it will all be sorted out. In the meantime, an extended warranty helps me sleep well. We drive the wheels off our TDI's and love them.

[wutbürger]

Have owned plenty a Subaru with nary an issue with a single one of them. In fact, my first 2.5RS went well over 200,000 with just standard maintenance (AND original clutch until 210,000ish miles).

There a lot of members here that can same the same about their IV Golfs/Jettas/Passats. However, there are not a large number of 09+ CR TDI owners with 100K+ on their cars yet to get a good feel. To me, you're taking a chance with the Subaru's CVT versus the VW's HPFP. One will be cheaper to repair than the other, both have had issues, etc. I personally drove a 2011 Outback before buying my Golf. I enjoyed it, but too "floaty" and too large of a vehicle for me. The cargo space is nice, but the opening was a bit cutoff by some slop in the rear of the car. Plenty of legroom/shoulder room (more than a Golf or JSW) and deffinently more ground clearance if that matters to you.

It's my subjective opinion that if you want a slightly larger vehicle with (gasp) probably better reliability on average, go with the Subaru. If you want more driving enjoyment with vastly better fuel economy, a much better interior in terms of materials/fit/finish, etc. the Golf is a no brainer. To me, it's really apples to oranges with these two cars and a lot will be dictated by your geographical location and life needs. Rest assured that you might have issues with either, but both would be great vehicles

[wreck111]

Boy, you guys could not have said it better. Dead on with both cars. Golf TDI is a blast to drive, more fun than my S5. The Subaru is nice and quite,more luxurious in looks anyway. I hope with all highway driving and 35K a year the Golf will hold up. The first time it lets my wife down it's gone. I guess for a smug under 28K loaded with a rear spoiler I can complain,YET!

[GraniteRooster]

I test drove a 4 cyl CVT 2010 Outback and it was a total dog - no driving feel or zest from the powertrain. A TDI is worlds better unless you pony up for the 6 cyl Outback, and still ride and handling of TDI are worlds apart. If you get rid of cars @ 60k odds are HPFP wont affect you.

At 20 months and 54k miles, I would say my JSW is still tight and like new.

[ARBY]

I had a 08 2.5. Sloooooooow. Put together well, light on modern creature comforts.


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[meowguy]

I have 59,000 on my 2010 JSW. Have had no problems other than a flooded fuse block which we think was caused by improper installation of the cover. Other than that, which was fixed free, I have had no problems...none, not one single thing. Just routine maintenance.

But you are attempting to compare autos that are not comparable. Four wheel versus two wheel drive, gas versus diesel. Not a valid comparison of features and capabilities.

[TwoTone]

Well, we had a 05.5 Jetta and now own a 11 Legacy. We got a 6spd, so it's more fun to drive than the CVT. I've been following the shimmy issue. On the Subaru forums I frequent, it seems the shimmy issues aren't being reports as much, so perhaps, they've gotten it fixed in production now.

We took an extended test drive in ours, no shimmy and none so far. I'll take a little shimmy over a HPFP failure any day of the week.

Also, the Legacy is bigger and AWD, so like anything it's a trade off. My wife gets mid 20's in mixed, mostly city driving, we hit mid-upper 30's on highway.

Just read some of OILHAMMERS posts, it's just not the HPFP, he's now replaced 4 Turbos on CRs because the emissions is now creating higher temps. He is a diehard VW fan and says he believes the longevity of the CR isn't going to be the same as older TDIs

Sidenote, we need a Diesel Subaru in the US

[Elfnmagik]

Don't forget about head gasket leaks (x2).

[SJD_BOSTON]

Wife traded a 08 LL Bean 2.5 Outback for her 11 JSW TDI. We also still have an 09 Subaru Tribeca. Wife loves her JSW and will never look back, but (and a big one) we haven't gone through the winter yet. She also loved her Subaru when there was a foot of snow on the ground. She also misses the option to tow a small trailer or use a rear bike hitch without impacting ground clearance. The trade value on the Outback was great. This was based on her condition, mileage and the lack of used inventory when we purchased the VW. We bascially got 3K less then we paid 3 years prior for the Outback. The MPG's is a no brainer win for the JSW. As mentioned above we really need Subaru to bring it's diesel products over from Europe.

[whitedog]

It seems that people are saying don't buy a Subaru because the CVT has troubles. That would be like saying (When Mk 4s were new) "don't buy a VW because the 01M has troubles."

If the CVT has troubles and a manual trans is an option for you, then get the manual transmission.

[whitedog]

Originally Posted by Elfnmagik

Don't forget about head gasket leaks (x2).

And don't forget about the VW hard start when warm...

Of wait, that was on a PAST model.

Nevermind.