Is G12 (red) coolant unique to VW?

Is G12 (red) coolant unique to VW?

There are various "chemistrys" one could use to minimize corrosion in metal water systems. The "red" chemistry happens to be common in Europe and the "green" happens to be common in North America. They should not be mixed as the additives may or may not be compatible. You don't want to plug any cooling passages or lower pH.

I am wondering if it is the same as Dexcool the stuff GM uses.

Nah its different.

G12 is made by Pentosin. Its different than the Dexcool. Similar stuff but different.

I've seen an A4 coolant resevoir that used hte Dexcool stuff and YUCK - all stained and grody and deposits and junk.

Stick with the VW stuff. get it from Dieselgeek or I checked with my dealer and they've got it for $16 with tax per gallon!

Don't mix the G12 with other antifreeze. If you were going to change the antifreeze (from a waterpump change, new radiator or new hose) it wouldn't hurt to use Dexcool or traditional antifreeze as long as you flush out the whole system. Some swear by it, since it lasts longer than other antifreeze. It seems not to solve the problem with waterpumps, radiators and hoses going out. Actually, when a hose goes out on your car on the highway, all that antifreeze goes out on the ground. I haven't yet found what the advantage to G12 is.

A related thread from the VWVortex TDI Forum, that mentions the different chemistries (HOAT vs OAT).

Here's something I don't understand. Why do VW/Audi vehicles take specific fluids?
- G12 Antifreeze
- TDI oil
- ATF
I read a post somewhere on this site that the VW TDI oil is not as good as other oils on the market. It has been suggested to not use the VW TDI oil. Since information is known for the oil, it seems there are many experts to knock the "super special" TDI oil. There seems to be a shroud of mystery over the G12 antifreeze. So it is suggested over others on the market. The same is true for ATF. My A6Q takes this "super special" ATF that is $14/qt (I bought Mobil1 instead). I have a feeling that other VW/Audi products take the same ATF.
Does anyone see a trend here? These special fluids are needed to keep our TDI's running trouble free. I suggest that you only use the VW TDI oil and G12, since VW would never steer you wrong.
When will VW start selling diesel fuel? If it is up to VW's exacting standards I bet all of us would be willing to pay $5/gal.

For the record, Volkswagen has specified special coolant since they have had radiators. It used to be the blue phosphate-free ethylene glycol based stuff, whereas the generaic "green" coolant is propylene glycol based. If you mixed the two, you got corrosive gunk that eats aluminum (ever seen a Vanagon waterboxer's cylinder head?). The red stuff takes it one step further, as it is an "OAT" coolant, organic acid technology, that improves its longevity, as well as lubricating properties (for the coolant pump). The blue coolant is still available from VW/Audi dealers, although you may have to order it. It is why my '91 Jetta has been so good for over 300k miles...always had the blue stuff in it. My mom has an '87 Vanagon, always had the blue stuff, heads never been off, 150k miles. Also, you cannot mix the blue and red coolants together!!!

Volkswagen also uses special synthetic power steering fluid in most of its cars (some of the older ones used ATF dexron).

I feel the Castrol 5w40 Syntec is adequate, and I don't think anyone should fear using it, but I am sure any quality 5w40 synthetic will keep your TDI alive for a very, very, long time.

The fluids on these cars may cost more, but if you stick with them, it will pay off in the longevity of the car.

Incidentally, Dexcool is total garbage! When it comes in contact with air, it creates a horrible muddy sludge that plugs stuff up. And since 99.9% of every GM product out there needs an intake resealed, they do get low, and do get gunked up. I see that every day!!!

I have replaced many Vanagon cylinder heads that only had the blue coolant in it (including an old one I had where the heads were toast by 110K). My A6 takes the G11 stuff and it didn't keep the water pump from almost locking up and the head gaskets from leaking. My dad just replaced the engine in a 98 A6 that the customer ran all of the original antifreeze out of. My sisters VR6 needed a water pump at 55K and a head gasket at 75K (we even used the correct antifreeze for the water pump but not the second time). I could go on and on.
I don't believe that the G12 stuff should cost as much as it does. With manufactures trying to save every penny, why would they use antifreeze that costs 12-15 bucks a gallon? The answer is, it sure doesn't cost them that much but VW charges you that much because they can. The answer could be, that they use cheap water pumps to make up for the cost of the antifreeze. It wouldn't surprise me either that they have the formula patented, which makes it difficult for the average consumer to obtain (no other manufacturer can make it till the patent runs out). If I'm wrong, then why hasn't another company started marketing a G12 replacement for $6/gal. With all of the VW's worldwide you could sell lots of antifreeze.

I forgot to add that if you have an air cooled VW, you don't have to worry about antifreeze, just heat.

I think I have to take issue with some of the description here. Traditionally, the green coolant has always been ethylene glycol, and the red coolants have been propylene glycol based. Most propylene glycol formulas (I don't want to say all because I cannot back that information up) are biodegradable. Definately a plus if you have pets or a well nearby. That's not to say "Go ahead and flush your radiator right next to your well head. It's biodegradable!", but I think it's an advantage over the green stuff.

It is also true that you shouldn't mix these two products. I don't know what the blue stuff is made with, but I wouldn't mix any other coolant with it until I knew. The resulting buildup, as has been previously described, can be ugly, and the additives can counter each other in extreme cases, reducing lubrication and corrosion inhibition.

Here's my peeve: We are so concerned about the brand/weight/purity/zen/karma of the oil we use, and wouldn't dream of diluting our precious Delvac/Rotella/Amsoil with any dino-based drop of lubrication, even if it meant only a drop. Why should we split hairs over a few gallons of coolant that we may only buy three times in the car's lifetime? I agree that they charge WAY too much for it, but welcome to the dealership experience. Everything is overpriced (had to buy a MAF lately?).

I removed my EGR cooler when I cleaned my intake at 95,000 miles, drained it, and cleaned both. At that time, I had to add about a gallon of mixed coolant that I bought at the dealership. Here's the interesting thing- at 115,000 miles, I have had no trouble with the water pump whatsoever. (I had to go and knock on my table. I'm back now.)
The point is that you will never know the headaches you may save by using the specified materials, and sometimes that's the frustrating part. I'm just happy noticing how few headaches there have been.

-Rich

2000 Jetta, sliver/black lea, 115,000 miles. On the back burner until the motorcycle weather is gone...

A few corrections are in order. Most automotive antifreezes are ethylene glycol based. Two inhibitive chemistrys I know of are silicate and phosphate. I believe the silicate is dyed red and the phosphate is dyed green but I can be wrong here. I've heard of molybdate chemistry but not that familiar with it. It has been restated that if you drain and flush the red stuff you can refill with the green stuff.

Ethylene glycol is more biodegradeable than propylene glycol. Propylene glycol is more friendly to mammalian livers. Ethylene glycol is friendlier to the environment than propylene glycol.

However, if you want to spend $10 when $1 will do, that's your prerogrative.

Just checked, the original red G12 coolant in my '98 (untouched since it left the sunny Puebla, Mexico plant) looks perfect, tests BETTER in corrosion inhibitors, freeze protection, and alkalinity (tested with DVOM) than the Prestone that is in my Mazda, which is less than three months old. 16 bucks is a small price to pay for a gallon of coolant if it is able to last 4 years and still be this good. The G11 (blue) in my '91 also tests very good, but a wee bit more milivolts than the G12. Still better than the Prestone, and it is about a year old. If I was to abide by "Why spend $10 when $1 would do", I would buy a $9000 Hyundai Accent. I believe better coolant lasts longer, just like better oil lasts longer. It all balances out in the end, I just do not like to have to fiddle with changing fluids that often (I do enough every day at work!). I have serviced countless cars' cooling systems, countless headgaskets, etc. The German cars that have and always had the correct coolant in them were always in better condition. Heck, my Uncle's '86 Jetta was recalled for a heater core, but never was taken in for it, because it never leaked! And I have seen dozens of A2 heater cores leaking over the years. Blue coolant the whole time (Castrol oil, too) and after my cousin wrecked it, its 340+k mile tour of duty was brought to an end. Its original 1.8L K-jet gasser still running perfect, its 010 3 speed auto still shifting perfect.

Incidentally, some Euro-Fords as well as many late model Chrysler products also use a coolant that specs out like G12, and is also dyed red. Has the same smell, too. Taste test still pending

[ July 16, 2002, 18:45: Message edited by: oilhammer ]

Some G-12 is made by Pentosin, some by BASF, and some by Texaco. You can safely substitute any of the Dex Cool type coolants for G-12. Texaco has been an OEM supplier to VAG for G-12 in the past. I don't know who is suppling it now. These coolants are referred to as Oraganic Acid Type coolants, or OAT coolants. ALL OAT coolants are ethylene glycol based.

The ethylene glycol is the part of the coolant that alters the freezing and boiling point. The OAT part is the corrosion protection. All automotive coolants use ethylene glycol regardless of the color. What you are buying is better corrosion chemistry with the OAT coolants.

VW specification calls for a OAT coolant that is phosphate and silicate free. Every OAT coolant I have ever seen meets this spec.

Mercedes Benz has traditionally used Glysantin made by BASF. MB is now switching to modified OAT coolant called HOAT. HOAT stands for Hybred Organic Acid Type. MB decided to switch to a OAT coolant but added a small amount of silicates. MB feels this is better for engines with aluminum alloy blocks and heads. So that is the difference between OAT & HOAT.

In that Vortex thread, post 11 is the only one with correct information. Here is the URL that explains about HOAT coolants.

http://www.coolprofits.com/articles/anitfreeze-coolant/G05-Glysantin.htm

There are propylene glycol based OAT coolants but these are meant for large indutrial applications and not for automotive applications.

Here is a URL that explains more about OAT coolants.

http://www.theherd.com/articles/dex_cool.html

Texaco was the OEM suppiler to GM for Dex-Cool. Texaco co-developed Dex-Cool with GM. Before Texaco merged with Chevron, Texaco had a division called Equilon Lubricants. Equilon made the specialized products like synthetic oils and Dex Cool. After the merger Texaco sold off its Equilon unit to Shell. The Equilon Division of Shell makes the Dex-Cool coolants, Rotella synthetic blend motor oil, and the new full synthetic Rotella. So don't be scared to use the Shell ELC Dex-Cool coolants of you see some in a store.

Brian, 97 Passat TDI

I'm colorblind...need a bit of coolant makeup for my '01 Golf Tdi. Local dealer sold me a gallon of P/N ZVW 237 G12 ($22.23+tax). Is this the correct expensive "red" coolant for my Tdi?

The Tdi 5-sp is really a great car to drive...I got my first speeding ticket in 18 years today. I was in right-hand "slow" lane of 4-lane hiway cruising with the flow of PM rush-hour traffic. County sheriff blitz was out with two laser guns and at least a dozen patrol cars. Pulled me over with a group of 6 cars all at once...all of us said to be doing 72 in a 60. Two minutes to write up the tickets and they were on their way to repeat the classic routine of shooting fish in a barrel. Traffic in the left hand lane was not bothered...too much trouble to go after them even though they were driving faster. As I waited my turn for the autograph, it was entertaining to watch people's faces as they realized what they drove into. Two minutes of entertainment - $69...a learning experience - priceless.

oilhammer: Incidentally, Dexcool is total garbage! When it comes in contact with air, it creates a horrible muddy sludge that plugs stuff up. And since 99.9% of every GM product out there needs an intake resealed, they do get low, and do get gunked up. I see that every day!!!

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have experienced this - a few years ago - in my case caused by a shot rad. cap. The more I spoke to mechanics and GM techs the more horror stories I heard (& a coworker had a heater core plug up solid from the sludge).

Texaco states that their "Dexcool" long life coolant meets VW G-12 spec. I guess youd be OK IF there is no boilover/loss of pressure to the system at operating temp.

If VW G-12 = GM Dexcool has anyone experienced a similar brakedown with the VW G-12.

GeWilli: I've seen an A4 coolant resevoir that used hte Dexcool stuff and YUCK - all stained and grody and deposits and junk.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sounds like there is SOME difference between the two, anyone know why 2 coolants similar enough to win the manufacturers approval (VW's) seem to behave so differently??

At nearly 100k mi. and over 3 years our VW coolant looks and tests nearly like new. The GM was a near disaster, caught just in time.

Originally posted by Nutsnbolts:
Here's my peeve: We are so concerned about the brand/weight/purity/zen/karma of the oil we use, and wouldn't dream of diluting our precious Delvac/Rotella/Amsoil with any dino-based drop of lubrication, even if it meant only a drop. Why should we split hairs over a few gallons of coolant that we may only buy three times in the car's lifetime?

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The main reason for the question was that if an emergency repair is needed, how likely is it that you will be able to get G12 coolant if you don't happen to be near a VW dealer whose parts department is open? Another example is that if a non-VW specialist repairs the car (e.g. a body shop repairing crash damage that may have damaged some cooling system parts), how likely is it that the shop will know about and have the correct coolant?

Also, given that the hassle involved in flushing out the cooling system if the wrong coolant is used is greater than draining the wrong oil out of the engine, the stakes are higher in ensuring that the correct coolant is used.

You CAN mix the two types of coolants together, but...
You will have to then start changing out your coolant every year or two. VW has used that special phosphate coolant for years because the green stuff is corrosive to aluminum. The corrosive inhibiters wear away and withing two years, it eats at the aluminum in the head. This is true for ALL cars, not just VW. For proof, find yourself an aluminum headed car that has had its green coolant changed since Clinton was still in office. Drag your finger in the coolant resovoir and look for grey scum. THat's aluminum that has been rotted away! That VW coolant is high quality stuff. Dexcool, despite claims to the contrary, is awful stuff. I heard of many.many stories of Impala SS owners replacing clogged radiators because of Dexcool. I have since flushed it out replaced with the green stuff. The reason why you can't find VW spec coolant is because the average amercian wouldn't want to spend $10 a gallon on antifreeze when the local Walmart brand goes for $4! BTW, some of the VW fluids are very, very high quality. Years ago, VW Porsche had an article on trannies and noted that the VW tranny fluid was among the best. I ran Amsoil in mine (crappy) but found the VW oil was way better and it is still in there.

15 to 25 bucks for a gallon of coolant that'll when added in the right mix will last for almost ever? What is the deal?

Where is the problem spending the money?

Who's too cheap that they can't plan once in 5 years or so shell the dough for the good stuff?

You ain't gaining anything but putting in cheaper stuff and changing it more often.

Not worth it - even if as BKmetz is saying there is no difference. If he is sayin it then damn i'm close to believe'n it. But still I am not gonna comprimize by settlin with the crappy cheap whatever is avail at Walfart/Autozone/discountwhatever store.

But thanks for the info guys.

BTW - Vanagon's vasserbasser (sp) are finiky. My Step dad's (last year they were made 91?) ahd a coolant leak. Bozo's at the place he was takin it never could find anything that was leaking. Well, his other problem was that the floor was constantly wet. And it would get much worse in the winter (when the heater was on). Well the never used the rear heater since they bought it new - always smelled like antifreeze.

Well yeah the plastic sides were cracked - leaked like crazy. I took out the core, routed the in line from the core to the out hose under the car (closed the loop) - dry insides now.

He later had a problem - took it to a guy reccomended buy Heinz (thanks again) and they did a bunch of work. Turned out that the front radiator was 75% blocked. Why? Well the place he'd been taking it too had flushed it once with cheap stuff and my step dad had been topping the car up alternatively with coolant and water - back and forth (as it filled the inside).

Moral? DON'T USE ANYTHING THAN WHAT IS SUPPOSE TO GO IN THERE.

Change the fluids when it says to (not when you feel it is needed - sooner or later), WITH WHAT IT SAYS TO (in all cases except oil but that is a different story but not really well read the last 3 years in the F&L section ).

Drive on!

Hey, I saw this crap on the internet and it is somewhat contradictory to statements made above so I am not certain that both POVs can be correct but here goes:

Interesting tidbit:

Caution - Mopar Antifreeze/Coolant, 5 year/100,000 Mile Formula (MS-9769) may not be mixed with any other type of antifreeze. Doing so will reduce the corrosion protection and may result in premature water pump seal failure. If non-HOAT coolant is introduced into the cooling system in an emergency, it should be replaced with the specified coolant as soon as possible.

- - from the PT Schnoozer website.

another little tidbit:

Many European automakers use a hybrid of OAT -- HOAT (Hybrid Organic Additive Technology -- clever, huh?), which is the OAT package with a small amount of silicates added to increase the cavitation resistance and make it less aggressive against those seals and gaskets. This is often pale yellow in color. DaimlerChrysler is using it in several car lines now, too, notably the LH sedans and the new minivans (It's possible the Sebring/Stratus twins now use it -- I don't have that handy at the present). This stuff seems to offer pretty much the best of both worlds -- it's not quite as long-lived as straight OAT, but it is much better behaved in operation than OAT, much like conventional coolant.

Note that these three different additive packages are not really cross-compatible. No, they won't eat the insides of your radiator if you mix a little of one in with another in a pinch, but you'll be better to get the system flushed out and a fresh mix of 50/50 whatever your car needs put back into it.

In my own cars, I run a 50/50 EG/W coolant mix. I happen to own cars that take conventional coolant, but if I owned a car that came with OAT or HOAT from the factory, I'd likely stay with it. The anti-corrosion additives, in particular, leave residues on the walls of the various coolant passages (that's how they work -- the residues coat the base metal and prevent corrosion), and it's tricky to convert an engine that's been run with one style of package to use another package and get the full benefit. Switching from conventional to OAT, for instance, requires a mild acid flush of the cooling system after removal of the conventional coolant and before pouring in the OAT if the long-life corrosion benefits of the OAT coolant is to be realized. Just pouring the OAT in after draining the conventional won't gain the full measure of added coolant life the OAT marketers (notably Texaco) like to use as selling points.

- - - from the Jag lovers site ( <I can't believe they found one)

Previous GM products with Dexcool I've had.

1996 Chev Express conversion van - no problems, coolant looked good as new after 65k miles/four years.

1996 Pontiac Gran Prix - no problems, coolant looked good as new after 50+k miles/three years.

It's not the Dexcool that causes the problems. The only GM's that I've seen with the brown sludged had the wrong coolant added for make up and the vehicles generally were not taken care of very well anyway. Dexcool doesn't like to be mixed with any other product or even high mineral tap water. I always use distilled water for mix.
I use the Prestone Dexcool currently and have no problems.

If you read the July CarandDriver/Patrick Bedard editorial the best overall coolant that is now generally available is the Zerex G-05. It is being sold as extreme service for diesel engines. It is the same thing as Glysantin G 05 used by Mercedes.
imcool.com

Lots of interesting discussion here.

By the specs, Dex-Cool should not be any different from G-12 and completely interchangable.

I've never seen any GM engine have any problems from using Dex-Cool, but I'm not a mechanic working on GM cars all day.

I'm still on my original G-12 coolant with my Passat. I've only added about a pint of G-12 over 5 years and 150,000 miles of driving. When I bought my Passat I bought a 1 liter bottle of G-12 from the VW dealer. I have added a few ounces of other OAT coolants to the VW from time to time, but I have never done a coolant flush and added another brand of coolant. So I can't comment on how well other OAT coolants will hold up.

I have switched my other 3 cars to an OAT coolant to simplify coolant inventory in the garage. When I switched I did extended flushes with cooling system cleaner so there was nothing left of the older green/blue stuff. So far there are no problems with any type of sludge build-up or anything else in any of the other cars. The overflow tanks are bright shiney pink with NO trace of any sludge like I used to get with the older technology coolants.

My opinion, Dex-Cool is still better in my cars than the older technology coolants.

Brian, 97 Passat TDI

Originally posted by BKmetz:

I'm still on my original G-12 coolant with my Passat.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bri, not to be a nit-picker but the earlier cars such as your '97 and my '96 call for G11. Take a look at the logo printed on your coolant overflow tank.

It's my understanding that G11 no longer exists and has been replaced by the more contemporary G12.

Dex-cool equipped cars almost always have brown sludge in the radiator neck, and the clear plastic expansion bottles (if equipped) are usually coated with a brownish sludge, so bad you cannot see through them to see the coolant level. I see this every day, on many GM vehicles. A lot of them less than a year old. I see countless of the GM 60 degree V6 engines (3.1L and 3.4L) with intake leaks, coolant running down the bellhousing from the transmission end of the engine. This is VERY COMMON. And no fun to do on a Venture van or any of its clones. We have to replace heater cores and radiators at nearly epidemic levels on these cars, always long before any claimed "5 year 150k mile" long life coolant BS. Texaco may spec their Dex cool the same as G12, but it is absolutely not the same...unless all GM engines made in a multitude of different countries all are made of poorer quality metals that just desintegrate. I would be surprised to see any G12-equipped Volkswagen with the bottle that was not clear as a bell, even with the OE coolant fill still in use after several years. My '91's bottle is still clear, too (using the older blue G11). GM has had several TSBs about the coolant sludging, but I am not sure what their "fix" for it was. Knowing GM, they probably have invested too much money in the program to scrap it altogether. There are many reasons a Golf costs twice as much as a Crapolier, and better coolant is just one of them. Volkswagen cheaped out on battereies, however, and the OE Delco units in GM cars are better. But that is a good thing, because they need something to get the poor POS off the road when the alternator dies every 50k miles If I go on a cross country trip, I just pack a new, sealed bottle of G12 (or G11) and keep it in the trunk for insurance. A 15 dollar bottle of coolant won't break my bank account! Of course, my account is healthy because of repairing all those GM products out there (and a ton of Chrysler stuff, too... how would you feel if you still owed money on a 4 year old, out of warranty Caravan and had to dump 2 grand into a new transmission, or 900 bucks into a new evaporator core? Ouch!!!)

oilhammer,
Here is a interesting article about DexCool.
GM and Texaco Bare All About Dex-Cool
You are probably seeing what you are seeing because of contamination more than anything else. This is nothing new in the world of coolants and after working 12 years in the parts industry I saw my fair share of abused cooling systems on cars and trucks.
Like I said I haven't had any problems like you describe with DexCool or nobody I know has had them also. (My brother has a '99 Chev 3/4 ton 4x4 also) But..........
A question that should be asked is why the cooling system contamination so great? Leading to the conditions described. It is hard to believe just the radiator cap would cause so much damage even though in its operation it is considered a primary source.
Because of the problems created by all of the specialized coolants now days, many people I know are going back to the old fashioned "green stuff" and changing every other year like everyone used to.

Dieseldorf,

You are correct about the 96 Passats and some early 97 Passats using G-11. But, my Passat did come with G-12. The overflow bottle does have G-12 printed on it. It's pink and has always been pink. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The owner's manual states to use G-11, but there is an extra insert that states the owner's manual is wrong and that the car has G-12 in it.

If I had a digital camera I would post a picture of the overflow bottle. I did scan the owner's manual and the insert about G-12.

The owner's manual concerning G-11:



The front page of the insert concerning G-12:



The back page of the insert concerning G-12:



Brian, 97 Passat TDI

edited to correct picture links

FYI:

I switched one of our VWs over to DEXCOOL a while ago. The water pump started to leak at about 100k miles and I had it replaced. A new VW waterpump was installed and started leaking only 18k miles later. The pump was leaking in 2 places. I found this to be very strange and was also not happy that I had to replace it again.

I don't know if DEXCOOL was to blame but also wonder if it was more than a coincidence...

Originally posted by GeWilli:
Change the fluids when it says to (not when you feel it is needed - sooner or later), WITH WHAT IT SAYS TO (in all cases except oil but that is a different story but not really well read the last 3 years in the F&L section

).

Drive on!

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LMAO This is coming from the same guy That refuses to use the correct viscosity in his motor ie 5w40

Seriously I'll only suggest going with the VW G12 or G12 coolant made by Pentosin available aftermarket. The engine running the G12 have all looked so good that I am convinced the stuff works as advertised so why fuss with it.

When I say works as advertised I mean coolant housings without cavitation pitting, scaling, corrosion, residues etc.

DB

Here's something I don't understand. Why do VW/Audi vehicles take specific fluids?
- G12 Antifreeze
- TDI oil
- ATF

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've been running Dexcool in my NB, and I don't see any problems. Just don't ever mix "pink" with "green."

"Green" sucks!

Mercedes Benz sells a coolant that is buffered. Most coolants contain "anti-corrosion" additives that actually corrode aluminum themselves! Next time around, I think I'll flush the system out thoroughly and use MB coolant.

I don't know if there's anything special about VW automatic tranny fluid. I think it's just a Dextron III fluid...but it's SYNTHETIC, which is an important point.

Why do you require "special" oil? If you lived in Europe, there would be nothing "special" about it. Most new cars are diesels, and oils made specifically for high speed, passenger car diesels abound.

There is nothing wrong with the Magic TDI Syntec. It's just overpriced for what it does. As always, I recommend Amsoil Series 3000. And whatever you use, price should be no object. Even the most expensive motor oil is a negligable line item in your overall car-owning costs.

-mickey

I knew when I was writing that above that Drivbiwire would jump on that statment with a follow up about oil.

Well face the facts man. There is not specific viscosity requirement. As long as it passes the specs.

dunno when that'll filter through that Delvac-1 clogged brain of yours