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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+)

VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) Discussion area for the 2012+ Passat TDI (North American and rest of world versions versions). The North American model was previously codenamed NMS (New Midsize Sedan) and the version the rest of the world gets is sometimes referred to as B7.

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Old July 5th, 2011, 20:06   #1
iboomalot
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Default what HP increase could a 2012 passat TDI from a tune?

my 2006 TDI jetta really liked the tune I got.

What about the new Passat ? It seems to have the stock 140hp/236tq motor what can I get from a tune on that engine?


Thanks
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Old July 5th, 2011, 20:51   #2
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Should be the same as all the other CR motors. Check out malonetuning.com for one option. He's just the only guy I know who is actively tuning those ECU's. Might not be as much of a bump as your Jetta was as tuners have to be a little careful about the emissions devices on the new motor.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 07:10   #3
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Plus the passat will use emissions fluid (urea) unlike the same motor in the 2009+ jettas.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 07:16   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farfromovin View Post
Should be the same as all the other CR motors. Check out malonetuning.com for one option. He's just the only guy I know who is actively tuning those ECU's. Might not be as much of a bump as your Jetta was as tuners have to be a little careful about the emissions devices on the new motor.
If anything, it seems to me the Passat should respond BETTER to tuning due to a lack of DPF.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 07:30   #5
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The Passat has a DPF. It doesn't have a NOx trap.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 07:32   #6
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oh there is a dpf, there is also a air to water intercooler!!
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Old July 6th, 2011, 07:51   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
The Passat has a DPF. It doesn't have a NOx trap.
Whoops, my mistake. Thanks for clearing that up
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Old July 6th, 2011, 08:08   #8
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Sigh misinformation is rife. The Passat DOES have a DPF and it DOES have a NOx trap, but the latter works on different technology in the Passat. In the latter, called SCR (selective catalytic reduction), the urea-based DEF acts as the reducing agent; in the Jetta, NOx is converted in what's called an LNT (lean-NOx trap) by alternating accumulation/release/conversion cycles with periodic operation in rich fuel-air mixture mode and the resulting unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust stream act as the reductant.

The fuel-rich mode to regenerate the LNT is why engines using this NOx aftertreatment technology suffers a fuel-economy penalty. SCR doesn't use this mode, hence no associated penalty. But there IS still a NOx catalyst.

Edit to add link: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehicles..._dorenkamp.pdf
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Old July 6th, 2011, 21:37   #9
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TDIMeister, I (very possibly mistakenly) had thought that post-combustion injection was used to burn off particulates accumulated by the DPF. Is this not true? And if not, will the Passat have any post-combustion injection cycles? Seems this could have very important ramifications for high-percentage biodiesel use.
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Old July 7th, 2011, 02:07   #10
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Quote:
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TDIMeister, I (very possibly mistakenly) had thought that post-combustion injection was used to burn off particulates accumulated by the DPF. Is this not true? And if not, will the Passat have any post-combustion injection cycles? Seems this could have very important ramifications for high-percentage biodiesel use.

post injection is used to keep exhaust temps up which help with all of the above
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Old July 7th, 2011, 11:33   #11
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^ Also incorrect. The LNT/SCR have their optimum conversion/regeneration efficiency at a much lower temperature than that required for the DPF (200-400C vs approx. 600C or more). See the link in my post above, slides 17, 24. In fact, exposure to temperatures of 750C or more "ages" the catalyst and permanently diminishes its conversion effectiveness in a fairly short period of time that mimics the aging process in a car after thousands of km (slides 17, 20, 24 and finally 19).
  • DPF regeneration requires lambda > 1 and high temperature (post-injection);
  • LNT regeneration requires lambda < 1 and low- to moderate temperature (intake throttling);
  • SCR does not need any particular engine-side calibration measures (except urea fluid consumption is proportional to the engine-out NOx emissions that must be reduced, so it's in the interest of the calibration to generate as little engine-out NOx emissions as possible in the first place, mainly via EGR and injection strategy);
  • De-SOx catalyst regeneration requires lambda < 1 and high temperature (likely some combination of intake throttling and post-injection).

The temperatures quoted above for NSC (NOx Storage Catalyst, analogously LNT) are different than those quoted in the 2006 DEER paper owing to likely different catalyst formulations from 2 years of development separating both publications, but the ranges and overall points made are still valid (picture is from MTZ 06|2008 Volume 69).

After all is said, this does not answer the original poster's question. The clarifications of the presence/functions of the DPF and LNT/SCR catalysts are important, but from a performance standpoint it can be expected that the SCR-equipped Passat can be tuned at least the same performance levels (other factors like turbocharger matching, boost pressure and fuel injection rates being assumed comparable) to the LNT-equipped Golf/Jettas, without the associated fuel consumption penalty for LNT regeneration but at the expense of likely increased DEF consumption.
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Old July 7th, 2011, 11:55   #12
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TDIMeister I bow to you Sir...
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Old July 10th, 2011, 19:34   #13
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malonetuning.com

kinda costly any other tuning options avail ??
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Old July 12th, 2011, 06:17   #14
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Actually $550 for a 30hp boost and 70lb torque gain doesn't sound that bad. Other options are also good to know tho...any?
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Old July 12th, 2011, 18:06   #15
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my tune on my Jetta was like 300 so twice the price seems high
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