blue smoke start up, how much for a new head?

hi everyone

So i have been experiencing blue smoke on start up weather engine is cold or hot since last fall, well that's when i noticed it so i might have been doing it since i bought the car last summer.

here is what it does
-when cold it smokes blue for a until the motor starts to warm up.
-when it sits for about a hour it puffs a little blue for a half second.
-when just shut off for a few min or two, no smoke at all.

So i started out buy rebuilding/upgrading my 1749vb to a 1752 to eliminate that factor and i doing so got a bigger turbo , but it did not solve my problem.
So i am thinking it is valves and seats (needs a new head), and possibly pistons and rings.

How serous should i be about getting a new head and rings? or should i worry less and drive more (just monitor my oil level)?

Who would be the be the best person to talk/deal with? frank06?
How much cash am i looking at for head, pistons and rings if needed?

is there any howto's on this?

thanks everyone

A new head is VERY expensive, and probably not needed. I suspect the start up smoke you are seeing is accumulated oil burning off, and the most likely source for this is worn valve stem seals. They can be replaced with the head on the engine, and since that will take you half way through a timing belt change, you should consider doing one at the same time. First things first, have you had trouble starting or done a compression test? This would be the way to start so you know what is going on. Even if there is a head problem such as valves, it is much better to get the head reworked than to replace it. Member Franko6 here does an excellent job on these heads, and at reasonable rates. There are cheap heads available on ebay, but if you get one of them, you will be sorry. They are a foolproof recipe for disaster.

Paul

Another possibility is the glow plugs. My most recent acquisition started with lots of smoke and ran rough until warm up. When I got around to replacing the glow plugs I found 2 of them had about 1/2 the threads full of carbon. They did not seem loose.

My theory is that they leaked a bit until they warmed up enough to make a rally good seal on the neck. After replacing the glow plugs, no more rough running.

Smoke? Oh, that was taken care of after correctly setting the mechanical timing.

How much oil are you consuming? Start keeping track. Until consumption gets to a liter in 2000 miles or so I wouldn't worry about it too much. I've noticed I'm using a bit more oil (about a liter in 4000-5000 miles depending on driving conditions) and may replace the valve guide seals next timing belt (at 260K miles).

mine smokes about htat much when it starts up, and so does my brothers. both our cars run fine. i would take the advice of indigo, and keep track of your oil consumption.

funny story: i thought my car was burning a whole bunch of oil until i found the oil on the back side of my engine... bad valve cover gasket

Starts perfect, no I haven't done a compression test yet.

Glow plugs were replaced last fall.

I'll just monitor oil consumption, and if it seem like I am burning alot I will look into things more at the next timing belt change.

I just wanted to see what you guys thought and recommended

Thanks

If you are running R520's and big fuel pump it will always smoke blue/white on startup and run rich at idle. There are (hot and cold start) fueling parameters that must be properly modified to accomodate extra fuel. There are many other control parameter other than the single (hot) running fuel map tuners usually modify bigger.

I see this problem all the time. It's an easy fix, and I see it alot lately.

Another one I often see is incorrect maf calibration. (ie. modifed housing diameter)

What is your compression values hot or cold? I've seen runaway turbos hydro lock motors and bend rods, lowering compression a few points, but the car still runs.

A good test to locate an offending cylinder is start the car cold and let it smoke for 15 seconds, and turn it off and remove glow plugs. Often times it is only one cylinder that has lots of residual smoke left in the cylinder and it will be smoking. I have a youtube of this procedure I can post link.

Jeff

my 2002 smoked just on startup but I didn't use very much oil maybe a liter between oil changes ,if it doesnt use oil ... I would worry

that mcbride to PG drive has to be one of THE longest loneliest drives in northern BC , there used to be a BDC courier who drove a 2003 jetta on that route ... 650,000kms before he quit

Yeah he is actually my friend and has 620 000 km on his 03 Jetta, but now has low compression in one or two of the cylinders but still drives car because it runs fine. He is debating rebuilding the motor

XXX_er said:

my 2002 smoked just on startup but I didn't use very much oil maybe a liter between oil changes ,if it doesnt use oil ... I would worry

that mcbride to PG drive has to be one of THE longest loneliest drives in northern BC , there used to be a BDC courier who drove a 2003 jetta on that route ... 650,000kms before he quit

Click to expand...

where in bc are you located?

jsrmonster said:

If you are running R520's and big fuel pump it will always smoke blue/white on startup and run rich at idle. There are (hot and cold start) fueling parameters that must be properly modified to accomodate extra fuel. There are many other control parameter other than the single (hot) running fuel map tuners usually modify bigger.

I see this problem all the time. It's an easy fix, and I see it alot lately.

Another one I often see is incorrect maf calibration. (ie. modifed housing diameter)

What is your compression values hot or cold? I've seen runaway turbos hydro lock motors and bend rods, lowering compression a few points, but the car still runs.

A good test to locate an offending cylinder is start the car cold and let it smoke for 15 seconds, and turn it off and remove glow plugs. Often times it is only one cylinder that has lots of residual smoke left in the cylinder and it will be smoking. I have a youtube of this procedure I can post link.

Jeff

Click to expand...

hi jeff

i have the stock 10mm pump

i have never had a run away or blown a turbo

i have not checked compression yet because i do not have those tools

so your saying that buy letting it run for a few sec then shutting it off, and removing the glow plugs will tell me if i have bad compression in one of the chambers? or tell me if i have a bad leaking seal guide? i don't really understand what the smoke tells me?

noraayrrek said:

where in bc are you located?

Click to expand...

In Smithers nowdays but for 10 yrs I operated out of PG east to Valemont ,North to mackenzie ,west to Burns lake and south to Williams lake

the VW dealer told me the guy who did the 650,000kms in an 03 jetta now walks to work and the extent of his driving is the zamboni around the local rink in valemont

Drive it, check the fluid levels, dump the larger Turbo which has nothing to do with smoking at start up............quit worrying!

My 2 cents!

XXX_er said:

In Smithers nowdays but for 10 yrs I operated out of PG east to Valemont ,North to mackenzie ,west to Burns lake and south to Williams lake

the VW dealer told me the guy who did the 650,000kms in an 03 jetta now walks to work and the extent of his driving is the zamboni around the local rink in valemont

Click to expand...

Yeah, he has 620,000km on it and he works in Mcbride rec center, I'm good friends with him, and the only mojor problems he had with the car in all those km's was te DMF blew apart and electrical rubbed though the wires due to all the km's causing a few problems but they got it all figured out, actually I belive he just took the car on vacation for a few weeks, still running strong he does have a cel tho, I'm gona check it out when he gets back with my vagcom

AndyBees said:

Drive it, check the fluid levels, dump the larger Turbo which has nothing to do with smoking at start up............quit worrying!

My 2 cents!

Click to expand...

Thankyou will do

One of the misconceptions is that a cylinder head repair will cure any oil burning. Both valves are pressure induced, so the only oil that gets into the engine from shutdown is what might drip down past the valve guides, which isn't much.

The piston rings is where most oil burning happens. The other situation that pushes oil into the combustion chamber is from blow-by, which can come from badly worn valve guides and rings. Timing that is off can make the engine smoke more, too.

The tipping point to rebuild an engine, at least in many cases, is how well it starts. A bit of engine oil poured into an engine is not a big deal.

Someone said how expensive the heads are. We just got a LOAD of new cylinder heads. One is an excellent bare casting which we are installing all of our parts into. The other is a complete Kolbenschmidt head. We have to figure the final cost for the new casting, but they will be competitive. We are thinking around $850. The Kolbenschmidt is normally around $1200 and those are going to list for $1050.

hi everyone

so i have some updates, in about 2000km my dip stick oil level has moved from full which was just above the dotted lines, to the 2nd dotted line from the top, am i burning alot of oil?

same problem... bump bump for solutions

I'd say this is a late bump, but same problem. Pretty sure it's valve guides. But frank summed it up. 3 important things to check