www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2014 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You



Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI 101

TDI 101 Got a simple/basic TDI question? Are you a newbie (new to the forums). Feel free to post your question here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 9th, 2011, 21:41   #1
don_iffy
Newbie
 
don_iffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Slough
Default Polo 1.4 TDI cold start judder and blue/white smoke

Tuesday 9th March 2010 - 1:35pm

Hello everyone!

I am new to the forum i am sorry if i have posted in the wrong area.

I have a VW polo 9n 1.4 TDI and I've had it for around a year and recently it has started to smoke alot when I start it at a cold start. The car judders it doesnt cut of but it is quite shaky, I've been to a couple of mechanics and I've had the glow plugs changed but it hasnt made a difference! I have had it put on the computer and it came up with cylinder 3 misfire does this mean the injetor has gone or the fuel isn't giving out the right amount of fuel?

And i have also noticed that there is a black unit box with pipes coming out of it on the top left which has oil in there. My cousins polo doesnt have oil in there. Please see image to get an idea of what im talking about. The picture is not of my car but if you look at the top left there is a little unit with pipes coming out of it, i have taken the end bit off and it has oil in there.

Please could someone help meee! i would appreciate it thank you !

Don_Iffy

Last edited by don_iffy; March 10th, 2011 at 15:14. Reason: need to copy picture link
don_iffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2011, 21:46   #2
Dodoma
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Default

I have been to Slough UK many times. There is a road called Ledger Road. If the black box with four pipes coming out should not be there, then just get rid of it and plug and remaining openings. Before doing, do a detective work: find from where the oil comes to the black box and from there where it goes thru the four pipes. After finding this, just connect those two. You do not say how many miles or km your Polo has. If it is cold, expect to have shakes and white smoke. Do these persists when the engine is warm? The juddering may be related to the diesel gelling. So does it judder after some drive when the engine is at operating temperature? See if diesel fuel conditioner reduces your juddering. Since the computer shows code and the 3rd injector provides information to ecu (computer) regarding injector position needle (3rd injector has built in solonoid), may be replacing this injector will solve you problems. Whether it is a Polo or Jetta or Bora or Passat or Fox, when they are powered by diesel, expect some shakes.

Last edited by Dodoma; March 9th, 2011 at 22:47.
Dodoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2011, 22:15   #3
don_iffy
Newbie
 
don_iffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Slough
Default

Thats right Ledger Road off bath road, I dont actualy live in slough about 10 minutes away in maidenhead. Im not entirely sure what that is used for but i shall find out. Oh yeah sorry it has done 134,000 miles on the clock. Thats right it does shake alot in cold start and it does have alot of light blue smoke people walk by and think its foggy lol! When the engine is warm i dont get no smoke or shaking just the odd now and again shudder or little shake. I think i used to wrong word "judder" should have used shaking. Thats true but when i say shaking you can see the car actualy shaking badly.

Last edited by don_iffy; March 9th, 2011 at 22:27.
don_iffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2011, 22:16   #4
don_iffy
Newbie
 
don_iffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Slough
Default

My fuel economy has dropped quite a bit too
don_iffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2011, 22:59   #5
Dodoma
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Default shaking

Blue smoke is associated with oil burning. I wonder if you have checked the compression on all the four cylinders.
Dodoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2011, 10:33   #6
K.I.T.T.
Veteran Member
 
K.I.T.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Europe
TDI(s): AMF
Default

Turbo seals, piston rings, valve stems amongst other things...

Actually, I think it's to do with the turbo. That black box is the valve block, and houses the N75 valve that applies a vaccum to the WG. If the turbo seals are gone, maybe it's somehow sucking some oil through.

Ash
__________________
PD injector differences (click)
K.I.T.T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2011, 12:58   #7
don_iffy
Newbie
 
don_iffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Slough
Default

Thank you for the ideas i will be getting all these things checked out over the weekend.

Dodoma: My car definately burns A Lot of oil if i drive it sensibly it will last me around two months and then i have to fill it up because the oil light comes on but it doesnt take much for it to reach the Max mark on the dipstick :S. And i have had it checked out to see if theres any oil leakage but there isnt.

Cheers Ash i will get my turbo checked out I havent exactly been taking it easy on the car the time i have had it. I have noticed i wrote ive had the car for a year my mistake ive had it for 3 years i got the car on 75,000 miles and if im honest i have not taken it easy. I suppose because of it being a 3 cylinder they are not built to be thrashed.
__________________
Don Iffy
don_iffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2011, 13:04   #8
raikky
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: England, Sheffield
Default

its a 1.4 tdi there arnt 4 cylinders just 3. i have a 6n2 1.4 tdi. yes its shakey during the winter. but after about 3 - 4 miles of driving its normal.

its normal for these cars to shake quite a lot in cold weather. mine has!

but since the computer says misifre could be low or uneven compression, blocked injectors, vacuum leak, bad / faulty infectors

anyway, after 130000 miles you need to buy some bg244 and stick that in. im not saying that will solve the problem but it will clear the injectors and remove carbon and well quite alot more. dont compare it to any other product youve used like millers etc this stuff costs around 25 quid. i used it in my car just before winter after its done 70000 miles and it runs much better now.
raikky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2011, 13:23   #9
don_iffy
Newbie
 
don_iffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Slough
Default

Riakky Thank you for the help and advise I will buy that asap and try that, I think what else could be causing a lot of the shaking is my engine mounts might be gone because the engine shakes hell of a lot when starting in the cold.

I had a compression Air test done and it said it was fine my next step was going to be get the injector that is misfiring replaced and then see if it resolves the issue.

Thank you
__________________
Don Iffy
don_iffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2011, 13:34   #10
Conan
Veteran Member
 
Conan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Denver
TDI(s): 2003 GLS TDI
Fuel Economy: 32-48
Default

Does it only do it in real cold weather? It could be that your #3 glow plug is not working, and you're seeing the smoke from unburned #3 cylinder fuel burning in the exhaust until it warms up. Another possibility is a badly worn and/or broken injector nozzle in #3, which is leaking fuel into the cylinder, or at least not spraying it properly. That would account for the smoke and the bad mileage.

Are there any mechanics locally that know TDIs? It's pretty simple (and should be relatively cheap) to check compression, inspect GPs, GP harness, and nozzles. That would be a good place to start.

Edit to add: it might be helpful to post another thread called "Oil in my N75 housing?" or something like that. TDI 101 would get the most visibility, I think. There is another forum called something like "Other VW Group TDIs" that would cover your Polo. There are a lot of high-powered Gurus on this side of the pond (who might not read Polo threads 'cause they're not sold over here)-- surely somebody will have experience with the oily N75. I'm pretty new, but it occurs to me that if the diaphram in the VNT actuator broke, it might suck oil through the vacuum line to the N75 housing. Just a thought. One way to tell is to hook up a computer with VCDS, and cycle the actuator. You need to make sure that the N75 is supplying enough vacuum to work the turbo through the right range of motion.

Good luck!

Lee

Last edited by Conan; March 10th, 2011 at 13:41.
Conan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2011, 13:44   #11
raikky
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: England, Sheffield
Default

don iffy before getting the injector replaced or looked at hang on for that bg244 as that works well. if you can wait.

my car starts very shakey and rough in all types of weather just to let you know. but after startup in cold weather it takes a few miles to get to normal where as in warm weather its much quicker / almost straight away.

since there is oil on the valve block what i told you about the bg244 might not work but you should use it anyway. i know a tdi specailist garage but i forgot the nubmer and website. they charge just 40 quid an hour but they will know exactly what the problem would be. don't bother with wrench monkeys they wont have a clue.

Last edited by raikky; March 10th, 2011 at 13:47.
raikky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2011, 14:22   #12
K.I.T.T.
Veteran Member
 
K.I.T.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Europe
TDI(s): AMF
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan View Post
but it occurs to me that if the diaphram in the VNT actuator broke, it might suck oil through the vacuum line to the N75 housing. Just a thought. One way to tell is to hook up a computer with VCDS, and cycle the actuator. You need to make sure that the N75 is supplying enough vacuum to work the turbo through the right range of motion.
Just a heads up, the 1.4 TDI has a wastegeted turbo. Not a VNT

@york, I've achieved over 70MPG UK (So just over 60MPG US) driving 100 miles at 50mph. Most boring drive of my life. Doesn't sound that great, but we have quite short gearing compared to the 1.9.

In town, it's significantly better than the 1.9 TDI.

The Polo bluemotion has the same engine, but a longer gearbox and does 80+ UK MPG (verified) on a long run. That has a pesky DPF too, so with that deleted, I suspect it'll do more!

Ash
__________________
PD injector differences (click)
K.I.T.T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2011, 14:23   #13
don_iffy
Newbie
 
don_iffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Slough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan View Post
Does it only do it in real cold weather? It could be that your #3 glow plug is not working, and you're seeing the smoke from unburned #3 cylinder fuel burning in the exhaust until it warms up. Another possibility is a badly worn and/or broken injector nozzle in #3, which is leaking fuel into the cylinder, or at least not spraying it properly. That would account for the smoke and the bad mileage.

Are there any mechanics locally that know TDIs? It's pretty simple (and should be relatively cheap) to check compression, inspect GPs, GP harness, and nozzles. That would be a good place to start.

Edit to add: it might be helpful to post another thread called "Oil in my N75 housing?" or something like that. TDI 101 would get the most visibility, I think. There is another forum called something like "Other VW Group TDIs" that would cover your Polo. There are a lot of high-powered Gurus on this side of the pond (who might not read Polo threads 'cause they're not sold over here)-- surely somebody will have experience with the oily N75. I'm pretty new, but it occurs to me that if the diaphram in the VNT actuator broke, it might suck oil through the vacuum line to the N75 housing. Just a thought. One way to tell is to hook up a computer with VCDS, and cycle the actuator. You need to make sure that the N75 is supplying enough vacuum to work the turbo through the right range of motion.

Good luck!

Lee

Hi Lee

It is mostly in really cold weather, it does it 99.9% of the time there is that odd chance where it will start up with not much smoke and not much shaking at all. I have had the glow plugs changed 3 times everytime i went to the mechanic they all said straight away its the glow plugs without even looking at it so i kept getting them changed but the problem wasnt going i used VW glow plugs.

wish i had a clue about cars like mechanically lol!

I have been to a mechanic who has worked for VW in the past and he said it could be the wiring loom, injector seals and a few other things but said to me we need to start at the injector seals and get them changed and then if that doesnt work we move onto the next thing but i was thinking hmmmm im probz going to end up spending a lot of money until they find the issue. Do you think i should just get them to do that change the possible causes until the issue is fixed?

Good idea thank you i will put up a thread to inquire about the oil in the N75 Housing.

Thank you for you advice guys I appreciate it keep the advice coming
__________________
Don Iffy
don_iffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2011, 14:25   #14
K.I.T.T.
Veteran Member
 
K.I.T.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Europe
TDI(s): AMF
Default

Don, did you literally copy what I put under my "TDIs" (under your avatar) right to the tee lol

Ash
__________________
PD injector differences (click)
K.I.T.T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2011, 14:28   #15
don_iffy
Newbie
 
don_iffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Slough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raikky View Post
don iffy before getting the injector replaced or looked at hang on for that bg244 as that works well. if you can wait.

my car starts very shakey and rough in all types of weather just to let you know. but after startup in cold weather it takes a few miles to get to normal where as in warm weather its much quicker / almost straight away.

since there is oil on the valve block what i told you about the bg244 might not work but you should use it anyway. i know a tdi specailist garage but i forgot the nubmer and website. they charge just 40 quid an hour but they will know exactly what the problem would be. don't bother with wrench monkeys they wont have a clue.
Raikky,

I have ordered the BG244 on ebay it will be with me by monday hopefully

Yeah thats right same with mine after a few miles its fine but i get this now and again where if im stuck in traffic my car starts to shivver/shake again.

Oh really if you do remember the number or website please send it to me because the mechanics around my area are just as you said wrench monkeys lol!
__________________
Don Iffy
don_iffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
White Smoke real bad at cold start up on a 2000 Jetta TDI Clloved TDI 101 3 January 14th, 2010 18:44
Cold start white smoke nesdon TDI 101 15 November 19th, 2008 13:01
Blue/white smoke after first start of day Savannah Steve TDI 101 13 October 27th, 2007 08:57
Blue/White Smoke at Start Up Combuster VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas 1 June 4th, 2007 06:46
White smoke at cold start - possible causes? TDIRyan TDI 101 7 February 7th, 2005 21:57


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2014
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2013, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.15430 seconds with 10 queries
[Output: 134.28 Kb. compressed to 112.12 Kb. by saving 22.16 Kb. (16.50%)]