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Upgrades (non TDI Engine related) The place of handling, lighting and other upgrades that do not relate to the performance or economy of the TDI engine. In other words upgrades to your TDI that don't fit into TDI Fuel Economy & TDI Engine Enhancements.Please note the Performance Disclaimer

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Old March 2nd, 2011, 23:11   #1
Whitbread
 
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Default How to: 02M/02Q LSD Install

Well I'm finally installing MY lsd and figured I'd post up a good how to since there aren't really any out there .

This is an FMH 02M, however it is apparently darn near the last 02M made as it's basically an 02Q on the inside . I've done tons of 02M lsd installs and this is the first one I've seen like this. The last one I did was even an FMH, but it was still the "old" style 02M.

Onto the pics;

The paitient


Remove speed sensor and all bolts you can find. The first clues that this was something different was that the case bolts are aluminum and the black cap that most 02m's don't have.


Next, remove the shift tower by pulling straight out and then put the trans bellhousing side down. Use a very small screwdriver to remove the cap that covers the rear input shaft bearing. Notice the snap ring on the outside of the bearing, remove it. If you have an old style 02M, this step doesn't apply to you.


On mine, I also had to remove this guy to get the tower out


Now, use a rubber mallet to break the adhesive bond between the halves and lift the top of the case off. All the gears will be stacked nicely looking at you. (I pulled the bellhousing side off first because I wanted to make sure I removed the shift tower correctly since I've never done a "new" style 02M before.) I couldn't be happier to see how clean this transmission is on the inside. There can't be more than 20K on it tops.


Here's all the gears


Here's the forks with offending rivets that must be removed. Notice the cushions on the end of the shift rails, old style 02M's don't have those.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 23:12   #2
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Here's some interesting bits I noticed on this particular trans:

Input shaft is supported by one straight roller bearing and one giant ball bearing. Normally, it's a tapered roller bearing at each end of the shaft on the older 02m's. Now, I question whether this is a change made to increase strength, or a change because this is somehow cheaper than tapered roller bearings. It seems surprising to me that they deemed that the axial thrust loads generated by the helical gears could be handled by straight bearings with no thrust bearings. Any of the engineers/experts have a comment here?


Another oddity is the shift rail bushings this trans has. In old style 02m's they use little ball bearings in plastic cages. This trans just has bushings. Seems to me like a cost cutting design change.





The drive flanges also have little plastic dust shields of sorts on them. I'll snap pics of them tomorrow.





That's all for tonight, going to hot tank the cases tomorrow morning and get back at it. Hopefully the differential bearings show up tomorrow from ID Parts and I can put it all back together. (Are they going to show up tomorrow Peter? )




Okey dokey, here's the next round of pics:

Rivets drilled out. I like to use a 17/32" bit on a drill press with some wd-40 or other cutting lubricant.


The weapon of choice for driving rivets out


All out


Use a dead blow mallet to gently knock ring gear off differential. Notice the groove cut in the face of the ring gear that contacts the flange of the differential. Make sure you reinstall it in the same orientation.


Press the studs in your shiny expensive diff you'll never see again


Heat the ring gear in an oven, top of wood stove, propane torch, etc to approx 200F. This will make it drop on the diff much easier. Be sure to lube all studs and nuts with ARP lube and use 2 nuts 180* apart to draw the ring gear down gently. Once you feel it bottom out, torque all nuts to 40 ft/lbs. Then torque them all to 70 ft/lbs. This will make sure all the studs are fully seated in the differential flange. You'll probably have a couple that you'll feel turn more than others, that's the stud being drawn into the diff fully. Then, break all nuts loose, and torque to 45 ft/lbs for the final tq.




Now, take your bearings and toss them in the oven at 400F for 20 mins or so. Might want to make sure the better half is out of the house when you do this....
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Last edited by Whitbread; March 9th, 2011 at 23:12.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 23:14   #3
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Toss the diff in the freezer for a half hour or so


If you did it right, the bearings will drop right on, no pressing needed.


Using this method, I changed the differential bearing races in the case


When doing the race that has the shim behind it, take a die grinder or rat tail file and put 2 small notches 180* apart. This makes driving the bearing race out after checking preload 100X easier. After notching, install the race with NO shim, measure the free play, drive the race back out, and then install the correct shim and the bearing race again.


Onto the forks. The enemy


Drive the roll pin out, drill the hole out to .260"-.270", and then tap it M8x1.25. Since you can't weld this bolt, use red loctite. Snap On tap sockets are one of the best inventions since sliced bread.


Before removing this roll pin, put 2 tack welds holding the shaft to the collar. If you don't tack it, the collar likes to rotate on the shaft during drilling/tapping. Don't ask me how I know....


I used a grade 12.9 M8 cap screw 25mm long to replace the roll pin. Grind the end flush and run around with a tig to make sure it never comes out



Grind the socket heads down to clear the trans case


Ahhhh, the 1-2 fork that has given so many people grief. Grind the rivet head off and punch the rivet out
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Last edited by Whitbread; March 9th, 2011 at 23:27.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 23:14   #4
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Drill and tap this piece with the same tools used earlier. Drill the brass fork out to 5/16" so bolt can pass through it.


I used an M8x16mm cap screw here. Grind excess down and weld again. You don't have to grind the socket head on this one though.


For your remaining fork, follow the same steps as above. On this one you do have to grind the socket head down.


Ahhh, the 02M in it's assembled glory




When dropping my top case half on, I had to warm the case around the rear input shaft bearing to get it to slip in place. Once it's in all the way, put the snap ring in and tap the seal cover on.
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Last edited by Whitbread; March 9th, 2011 at 23:35.
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 08:26   #5
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Default Ball Bearings

All the Honda trannies I have pulled apart use straight bearings. Ball bearings have a fair tolerance to axial loading as is.

Tapered bearings can be tricky to set because the aluminum case, and the steel shafts expand at different rates. Straight bearings let one end of the shaft float axially making shims obsolete.
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 10:54   #6
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Over on Vortex they suggest removing the rubber cushions on the ends of the rods. Any ideas on the thinking behind this?

David
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Old March 4th, 2011, 11:12   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shootist View Post
All the Honda trannies I have pulled apart use straight bearings. Ball bearings have a fair tolerance to axial loading as is.

Tapered bearings can be tricky to set because the aluminum case, and the steel shafts expand at different rates. Straight bearings let one end of the shaft float axially making shims obsolete.
Ah, I've never been in a honda trans before. I guess I'm just so used to working 02J's/02M's and old school heavy duty stuff where everything is on tapered roller bearings. My car should be a good test if it's weaker or not haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIinTexas View Post
Over on Vortex they suggest removing the rubber cushions on the ends of the rods. Any ideas on the thinking behind this?

David
I've seen that mentioned too. I'm not sure why either. Only thing I can think of is to extend the travel of the shift shaft to make sure you don't miss a shift.
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Old March 9th, 2011, 23:33   #8
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Install finished, pics added .
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Old March 10th, 2011, 02:40   #9
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the the freeze/heat method for installing the bearings is the way to go. i have seen blogs where the guys are damaging these on install all the time.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 08:06   #10
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haha guess my next transmission is going off to Matt to have him do the wavetrac install. I don't have an oven I can use that won't get me in trouble (;
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Old March 10th, 2011, 13:01   #11
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Great guide, I've got a super long ratio 02Q with only 100 miles on it for my new project, i need to do the diff install and upgrade shifter forks on that! the 02Q rarely break compared to the 02M so maybe leave the buffers in?

I read something about measuring the exact width of the old diff compared to the new diff and that dictates the thickness of the shim, does that sound right?
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Old March 30th, 2011, 17:18   #12
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OP, you are my hero! I'm going to be tackling this job for the first time this weekend and had been worried as there are very little DIY's out there showing the 02M split open.

My questions for you are:

1) Once the old shimmed race is removed, are you doing anything special when installing the new one? That is, are you throwing the race in the freezer and heating the case prior to attempting to press it in?

2) Anything special when popping it back out after checking preload?

3) What value are you using for preload and where did you get your shims?

TIA
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Old March 30th, 2011, 17:55   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA_VDubber View Post
OP, you are my hero! I'm going to be tackling this job for the first time this weekend and had been worried as there are very little DIY's out there showing the 02M split open.

My questions for you are:

1) Once the old shimmed race is removed, are you doing anything special when installing the new one? That is, are you throwing the race in the freezer and heating the case prior to attempting to press it in?

2) Anything special when popping it back out after checking preload?

3) What value are you using for preload and where did you get your shims?

TIA
Thanks . The next time I do an lsd I'll do pics of the shimming process. Forgot to snap them while I had mine apart.

1) Nope. Just use a race driver or good (not china freight) round headed punch to carefully drive the race in. You could warm the case if you wanted, I generally don't.

2) Nope. Just use a good round punch to carefully knock it out from the backside.

3) I shoot for .010-.014" of preload. The math goes something like this; Free play measurement + .002" or .003" for what preload you'll lose because of the case sealant + .010" to .014" = shim thickness.

Here was mine: Original shim was .039". Free play was .024". 39-24=.015".
.015" - .003"= ~.012" preload with original shim. Since that's in spec, no new shim required.
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Old March 31st, 2011, 14:49   #14
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^Thank you so much! I've got a copy of this thread printed out and will be using it thoroughly starting tomorrow!
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Old May 14th, 2011, 17:08   #15
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Do you know the torque specs for the transmission case? Have been searching for a while now and found one link which said torque to 25nm and a 45* turn, is this correct?
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