www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)

Upgrades (non TDI Engine related) The place of handling, lighting and other upgrades that do not relate to the performance or economy of the TDI engine. In other words upgrades to your TDI that don't fit into TDI Fuel Economy & TDI Engine Enhancements.Please note the Performance Disclaimer

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 19th, 2011, 22:41   #1
Fix_Until_Broke
Veteran Member
 
Fix_Until_Broke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
Fuel Economy: 75.0/53.0/38.4
Arrow ID Parts A4 Rear Swaybar Install

I installed my IDParts Rear Swaybar last weekend and snapped a couple pictures along the way and figured I'd share how I did it. Nothing new under the sun I'm sure.

First I measured side to side and got the bar centered in the rear axle beam. Then I clamped the bar BELOW the beam as shown below. Mark the left and right side of the bar now so that, when you take the bar in/out while going through the drilling process, if there are any differences between sides of the bar they're accomodated for in the drilling.



Make sure to flip the bar over when you clamp it to the lower part of the beam - this will make your holes be at the correct angle. Make sure the front most edge of the swaybar is a little behind the front most edge of the lower web of the axle beam, ~1/16" or so. You'll see why this is important later.


Now that the bar is clamped to the beam you can drill ONE hole in the beam using the holes in the RSB as a drill guide. DO NOT DRILL A PILOT HOLE. I used the tightest drill that would fit (3/8") so the hole is located as accurately as possible. Once ONE hole is drilled in the lower web of the beam - put a bolt in it and tighten the nut down - that way the bar can't move on that end.



Then go drill one hole on the other end of the bar and put a bolt in that hole. Then go drill the remaining two holes in the bottom web (one on each side).

Now that all 4 holes are drilled in the lower web of the axle beam, flip the bar back over and slide one bolt through the drilled hole and up into the swaybar. It won't go all the way through since we have not drilled the top holes yet.


The hole was drilled the size of the bolt and I had to tap it in with a hammer - nice and snug.

Now go to the other side and install one bolt the same way.

BEFORE drilling the first hole in the top web of the axle beam, you'll need to pull the top of the bar back into the axle beam.

There's a rubber bushing in the center of the axle beam for the OEM swaybar.


Remember setting the front edge of the sway bar a little behind the front edge of the axle beam web earlier? Well, that rubber bushing is holding the sway bar "out" a little. Use the C-Clamp to pull the top of the bar in so that it's set back about 1/16" behind the front edge of the top web of the axle beam just like the bottom edge. Then drill the top hole using the same drill bit. The swaybar becomes a drill guide and locates the hole right where it should be relative to the bottom hole.



Install ONE bolt through and tighten the nut then drill one hole on the other side of the car. Similar to drilling the lower holes, the bolt(s) will locate the bar in the correct position while you drill the other holes.



Here's the passenger side all bolted in


On the drivers side, I had to make some special accomodations to maintain clearance over my 4" exhaust pipe. Instead of drilling a through hole in the top web of the axle beam, I drilled and tapped it for the bolt. I used the same method as on the passenger side - but used the 3/8" drill bit to just put a pilot dimple in the top web. If you look close, you'll see the dimple through the right hole below.


I then drilled it 19/64 (touch smaller than the tap drill size for 3/8-16) and tapped it with a long tap - again using the sway bar holes as a guide to get the tap centered and straight. The picture is blurry (cell phone), but that's a long tap that is 3/8" shank diameter so all I had to do was push and turn.



Continued on Next Post (dang 10 picture per post limit)
__________________
03 Jetta, Cat 2u, DG Steel SP w/MOGolf Mod, 3"DP, 4"EXH, EaBP100 Bypass, Euroswitch, ECodes, Driving Light, PD Lift Pump, R520's, RC5,RC6, TDTuning, Malone, ScanGaugeII, 3" TIP, 2" TOP, HE221W Compounded with GTC1444VZ, 6 Bar MAP, VR6 MAF, Vented Fender Liner, Battery Cover Mod, 11mm, Monster Mats, 215/55/17 (27.9/53.0/75) Monthly MPG Links, Euro Trunk Latch, IDParts RSB, SDI or ALH Intake, ARL Ceramic Pistons, Rosten Rods, DRW, Wavetrac, SBC, FSD's, Beef Springs, Rebuilt Head, Recaro's, Colt II, DG Sigma 6, RMT200
Fix_Until_Broke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2011, 22:59   #2
Fix_Until_Broke
Veteran Member
 
Fix_Until_Broke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
Fuel Economy: 75.0/53.0/38.4
Default

Continued from Previous Post (dang 10 picture per post limit)

I then threaded the bolts into the top web of the axle beam with some red Loctite then cut off the excess bolt length with a sawzall flush with the top of the axle beam so as not to loose any clearance on my exhaust pipe. This picture is looking forward and down on the top of the rear axle beam.


That's about it - tighten all the nuts/bolts down and go for a test drive.

IMPORTANT TIP - go spend ~$10 on a good 3/8" cobalt drill bit. I've heard many complain that the axle beam material is hard to drill, but I used a cobalt drill bit and finished each hole in ~30 seconds with NO pilot holes. A drill bit like this should be included with each swaybar.







It definately makes a big difference in how the car handles. I'm probably being overly cautious here, but the first couple lane changes you make at speed - be prepared.

I still have my snow tires on, but have pushed it reasonably hard through some corners and it's very neutral in handling - more throttle gives more understeer, less throttle gives less understeer and almost feels like it will overstear but has not done it on me yet. On a hard (crank the wheel while coasting) right hand corner at ~30 MPH there was just a touch of oversteer - the back end went about 2-3 feet beyond and then pulled right back in line. Turn in is MUCH sharper and accurate. It takes a little getting used to, but I like it. I need to play with it more as I'm used to how the car handles for the last 135k miles without one and need to "re-learn" how it handles in emergency maneuvers.

I like it - not sure if it's how it should come from the factory for someone who's not used to how it handles, but it's definately an improvement in turn in, handling and overall feel of the car.
__________________
03 Jetta, Cat 2u, DG Steel SP w/MOGolf Mod, 3"DP, 4"EXH, EaBP100 Bypass, Euroswitch, ECodes, Driving Light, PD Lift Pump, R520's, RC5,RC6, TDTuning, Malone, ScanGaugeII, 3" TIP, 2" TOP, HE221W Compounded with GTC1444VZ, 6 Bar MAP, VR6 MAF, Vented Fender Liner, Battery Cover Mod, 11mm, Monster Mats, 215/55/17 (27.9/53.0/75) Monthly MPG Links, Euro Trunk Latch, IDParts RSB, SDI or ALH Intake, ARL Ceramic Pistons, Rosten Rods, DRW, Wavetrac, SBC, FSD's, Beef Springs, Rebuilt Head, Recaro's, Colt II, DG Sigma 6, RMT200
Fix_Until_Broke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2011, 04:41   #3
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

Glad you like it. After fresh dampers, I think this is the single best improvement you can make in a VW's handling. You're right about the oversteer, be careful first time you drive in the snow. It's not really a problem unless you're expecting the car to push no matter what like it does without the bar. I love going around ramps and steering with the accelerator.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 362K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 197K; 1997 Passat, 285K; '99.5 Golf, 257K; 2011 335d, 56K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 8K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2011, 06:40   #4
All of Us
Ian's Dad
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Brookfield, IL
Default

Matt:

Thanks for the write-up! Good images and a few good pointers for others who might want to do this same install.

Dan
__________________
All of Us
'06 Jetta TDI "Graycie"
Platinum Gray, Pkg2,
5spd, no mods yet
700 mile club
Broke 50mpg barrier (52.066) 10/14/07

'03 Jetta GLS TDI "Liath"
Reflex Silver, 5spd, ventectomy,
5 brake light mod, 6 disk CD changer, Ryan's LED Trunk light Mod
All of Us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2011, 15:19   #5
Fix_Until_Broke
Veteran Member
 
Fix_Until_Broke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
Fuel Economy: 75.0/53.0/38.4
Default

I drove it around quite a bit in the snow today which is really heavy/wet/sloppy and completely covered the roads - like driving in wet concrete almost. Most of the driving was no problem.

I was on a curvy 2 lane road and went into a 40 MPH curve at about 35 MPH and it turned in nicely and then started to oversteer a little - I turned into the overstear a little and it fell right back in line, turned into the curve again, it oversteered again, and I was able to correct it again. I was neutral on the throttle - didn't lift and didn't try to power out of it. I'd like to believe that without the RSB I probably would have plowed off the outside of the curve, but I don't know for sure (and I'm not going to try it again!). It definately oversteered, but it was managable.

I drove all over metro Milwaukee today on unplowed roads and didn't have any kind of oversteer at all during many lane changes, passing cars, etc so it seems that longer sweeping curves are more suspect to the oversteer in snowy/slippery conditions.
__________________
03 Jetta, Cat 2u, DG Steel SP w/MOGolf Mod, 3"DP, 4"EXH, EaBP100 Bypass, Euroswitch, ECodes, Driving Light, PD Lift Pump, R520's, RC5,RC6, TDTuning, Malone, ScanGaugeII, 3" TIP, 2" TOP, HE221W Compounded with GTC1444VZ, 6 Bar MAP, VR6 MAF, Vented Fender Liner, Battery Cover Mod, 11mm, Monster Mats, 215/55/17 (27.9/53.0/75) Monthly MPG Links, Euro Trunk Latch, IDParts RSB, SDI or ALH Intake, ARL Ceramic Pistons, Rosten Rods, DRW, Wavetrac, SBC, FSD's, Beef Springs, Rebuilt Head, Recaro's, Colt II, DG Sigma 6, RMT200
Fix_Until_Broke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2011, 15:45   #6
Farfromovin
Torque Addict
 
Farfromovin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ventura, CA
Fuel Economy: low: 35 high: 56 avg: 42.0
Default

I'll assume my RSB is the same as yours Matt for all intents and purposes. I haven't had the opportunity to play on snow, but I have beat on it on wet roads. I've been powering through corners and lifted throttle at the apex just to try and induce something, but nothing happened. The only thing that happens with obscene throttle changes in corners on wet pavement with my RSB is I spin both my wheels and start traveling at a tangent to the corner (gotta love LSD). The oversteer phenomena must be an ice thing, or you have stiffer shocks than my FSD's.
__________________

[/old setup]212whp/354 ft-lbs14.862@96.677-Way faster than Chris [/new setup] At least 213whp, and way way faster than Chris.
Farfromovin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2011, 16:27   #7
Fix_Until_Broke
Veteran Member
 
Fix_Until_Broke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
Fuel Economy: 75.0/53.0/38.4
Default

For the record, I have OEM shocks/struts/springs/mounts/etc with ~150k miles on them, TT control arm bushings, ball joints, tie rods with ~3k miles on them, 205/70/15 Nokian Hakka 5's for winter and 205/70/15 General Altimax's for Spring/Summer/Fall.

OEM front differential as well.

I think I remember hearing somewhere that the IDParts RSB is "lighter" than the Shine one - presumably having less of an effect, lower spring rate, etc. I've never seen them side by side so I don't know but I think they're very similar.

I was able to get it to hang out just a little bit on dry pavement during a hard sharp right hand 30 MPH corner.

I wonder how it will behave with a 2000 lb trailer behind me
__________________
03 Jetta, Cat 2u, DG Steel SP w/MOGolf Mod, 3"DP, 4"EXH, EaBP100 Bypass, Euroswitch, ECodes, Driving Light, PD Lift Pump, R520's, RC5,RC6, TDTuning, Malone, ScanGaugeII, 3" TIP, 2" TOP, HE221W Compounded with GTC1444VZ, 6 Bar MAP, VR6 MAF, Vented Fender Liner, Battery Cover Mod, 11mm, Monster Mats, 215/55/17 (27.9/53.0/75) Monthly MPG Links, Euro Trunk Latch, IDParts RSB, SDI or ALH Intake, ARL Ceramic Pistons, Rosten Rods, DRW, Wavetrac, SBC, FSD's, Beef Springs, Rebuilt Head, Recaro's, Colt II, DG Sigma 6, RMT200
Fix_Until_Broke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2011, 17:29   #8
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

FUB, what you describe is exactly what I've experienced. The only additional thing I've noticed is that the rear will start to rotate on snow rutted straight roads, although I've only had this happen on an interstate with 6" of wet snow on it and summer tires. Not recommended.

And it doesn't seem to do these things in the rain. Although the only times I've spun the Golf was with the bar in place and cold race tires on dry pavement.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 362K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 197K; 1997 Passat, 285K; '99.5 Golf, 257K; 2011 335d, 56K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 8K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 09:18   #9
darkhorse
Veteran Member
 
darkhorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Fuel Economy: mid 40's
Default

Great write up! The report on handling is completely consistent with my experience with the Shine bar.
__________________
'06 Golf GLS 5 speed, Evo skid plate, Koni FSD's with Shine RSS, SBC stage 3, SMF, KERMA custom tune, R 32 snorkel,PD 150 airbox,MAF,TIP & manifold, K3B,R 783's, Colt stage 2, EJ SMIC, piping by ID Parts, Whitbread 2.5" DP, Aero muffler, 3"KERMA SS pipes, Sigma 5 short shifter, .681 5th gear & Peloquin, Nicktane 1 um fuel filter & DG/Amsoil bypass filter.
darkhorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 09:37   #10
REDNECKDZL
Veteran Member
 
REDNECKDZL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Omemee
Default

Hands down the best mod to do on the suspension of a MK4, i'd do it again, but it would be the first thing i'd do

even before nozzles
__________________
2001 JETTA TDI, EMT Powers Custom tune, VNT 17, PP 764, PD150 TIP, 2.5" SS turbo back, JOM coliovers
180 HP, 300 ft/lbs Double stock power objective acheieved, now I can stop spending money
REDNECKDZL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 10:02   #11
diesel-dave
Veteran Member
 
diesel-dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: earth
Default

I agree awesome mod, is ID parts making these now? looks like my Dick Shine Rear Sway Bar.
__________________
2003 Bora Wagon TDI Bosio R520's,colt cam, VNT 17
q loader. no smoke and so on
2001 Beetle TDI GLS Bosio 764 7 hole's, qloader, VNT 15 and so on
2010 JSW wagon DSG loaded
2003 golf auto PP520's
diesel-dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 10:16   #12
FlashT
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: LA
Post

What is the weight of this bar?
FlashT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 10:28   #13
Got Bearings?
Veteran Member
 
Got Bearings?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SoCal
Fuel Economy: 36 / 50
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashT View Post
What is the weight of this bar?
7 lbs shipping weight according to ID Parts website.
__________________
The New Commuter Car: 2009 Cadillac CTS-V 556 HP, 6.2L Supercharged V-8, 6 speed manual
The Old Commuter Car: 01 Golf GLS TDI WRECKED AND GONE!
The Slow Car: 95 Impala SS 383, 6 speed, 391HP , 440TQ
Looking for Battery Cables, better & cheaper than OEM? Click here for info
Got Bearings? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 10:41   #14
eb2143
Veteran Member
 
eb2143's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rhode Island
TDI(s): None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fix_Until_Broke View Post
I was on a curvy 2 lane road and went into a 40 MPH curve at about 35 MPH and it turned in nicely and then started to oversteer a little - I turned into the overstear a little and it fell right back in line, turned into the curve again, it oversteered again, and I was able to correct it again. I was neutral on the throttle - didn't lift and didn't try to power out of it. I'd like to believe that without the RSB I probably would have plowed off the outside of the curve, but I don't know for sure (and I'm not going to try it again!). It definately oversteered, but it was managable.
To clarify: were you trying to test how the car lost traction with the sway bar?

I'm on my second winter with the IDparts RSB and I guess I drive too slow in slippery conditions to notice it...I guess my point is that while it's good to test how the car behaves at the limits with a RSB after you add it, I've heard people express concern/fear of spinning out in normal, prudent driving if they add a RSB, and I do not think that's the case.

One install tip: Tighten the bar hardware up TIGHT. If one starts hearing creaking in turns in a few weeks, re-tighten.

I'm a little doubtful that Peter's experience on the highway can be attributable to the RSB; 6'' slush with summer tires on the highway and I think any stock car is at risk of having the rear end come around.
__________________
SOLD MY BABY: 2001 Jetta TDI 5mt, Bosio Sprint 520s, Koni FSDs, VW HD Springs, 10mm spacer, Audi TT LCA bushings, 034 motorsports strut mounts, E-code lights, Audi TT "short"-shifter, IDparts rear sway bar, DG Panzer plate, Caterpillar 2m fuel filter, Frostheater, GLI Recaros, GTI 3-spoke steering wheel, Audi S3 shifter, R-line stainless pedals[/URL]
eb2143 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 14:49   #15
Fix_Until_Broke
Veteran Member
 
Fix_Until_Broke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
Fuel Economy: 75.0/53.0/38.4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eb2143 View Post
To clarify: were you trying to test how the car lost traction with the sway bar?
Well, that was not the goal, but it was the result

Quote:
Originally Posted by eb2143
I'm on my second winter with the IDparts RSB and I guess I drive too slow in slippery conditions to notice it...I guess my point is that while it's good to test how the car behaves at the limits with a RSB after you add it, I've heard people express concern/fear of spinning out in normal, prudent driving if they add a RSB, and I do not think that's the case.
The first 60 MPH lane change I made definately confirmed that it changes the handling of the car. I think it's a good improvement, but you need to be aware of it and how it behaves. I'd think twice now about loaning my car to someone who does not know what to do in an oversteer situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by eb2143
One install tip: Tighten the bar hardware up TIGHT. If one starts hearing creaking in turns in a few weeks, re-tighten.
I checked them after a 3 mile test drive, but will check them again the next time it's up on the hoist. I used red loctite on the tapped holes which should help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eb2143
I'm a little doubtful that Peter's experience on the highway can be attributable to the RSB; 6'' slush with summer tires on the highway and I think any stock car is at risk of having the rear end come around.
On my car with all OEM suspension, in 6" of slush/snow with either summer or winter tires, the only way the rear end would come around is with the use of the parking brake. Even on the dry pavement with summer tires, tapping the brakes in mid corner would only cause more push. Taking a hard corner and timing the brake application and turn in just right, you could get the back end to come around (like a neutral car should), but not kick out.

The more I drive it the more I get used to it - and, you really only notice it on moderately quick steering inputs - "normal" driving it's more/less transparent.
__________________
03 Jetta, Cat 2u, DG Steel SP w/MOGolf Mod, 3"DP, 4"EXH, EaBP100 Bypass, Euroswitch, ECodes, Driving Light, PD Lift Pump, R520's, RC5,RC6, TDTuning, Malone, ScanGaugeII, 3" TIP, 2" TOP, HE221W Compounded with GTC1444VZ, 6 Bar MAP, VR6 MAF, Vented Fender Liner, Battery Cover Mod, 11mm, Monster Mats, 215/55/17 (27.9/53.0/75) Monthly MPG Links, Euro Trunk Latch, IDParts RSB, SDI or ALH Intake, ARL Ceramic Pistons, Rosten Rods, DRW, Wavetrac, SBC, FSD's, Beef Springs, Rebuilt Head, Recaro's, Colt II, DG Sigma 6, RMT200
Fix_Until_Broke is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: A4 Right Rear door parts gioTDI Private TDI Items for Sale/Wanted 0 December 1st, 2010 17:11
rear swaybar Audiofyl Upgrades (non TDI Engine related) 21 August 18th, 2005 19:42
Failed attempt at neuspeed swaybar install dkuster VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 13 January 3rd, 2005 19:01
Holy Rear SwayBar! VWYankee Upgrades (non TDI Engine related) 34 July 15th, 2004 13:50
Eibach Swaybar install tonight, HELP! Chesta Upgrades (non TDI Engine related) 0 September 9th, 2002 08:25


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.18790 seconds with 10 queries
[Output: 154.88 Kb. compressed to 133.00 Kb. by saving 21.88 Kb. (14.13%)]