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Old May 10th, 2012, 14:00   #3421
pknopp
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Should be an easy swap. No?
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Old May 10th, 2012, 14:12   #3422
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Should be an easy swap. No?
NO! If you are talking about just swapping out the piston cup/follower. The new piston cup could actually wear out an old style pump bore FASTER than an the original piston cup. Its just not that simple.The hardness of both the pump bore and piston cup have to be compatable. Swapping out a Czech pump for and older revision pump shouldn't be a problem though.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 14:20   #3423
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I thought there was a passat that had a pump go due to misfueling ?
Yes,there was a 2012 Passat that was misfueled by the dealer and failed with just over 40 miles. 2Micron has a 12 Passat failed pump that also came off a car that was misfueled. I would think there are a few other misfuel failures,but those are the only two that I am aware of. NO failures have been reported here that have not been attributed to misfuels.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 18:53   #3424
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Yes,there was a 2012 Passat that was misfueled by the dealer and failed with just over 40 miles. 2Micron has a 12 Passat failed pump that also came off a car that was misfueled. I would think there are a few other misfuel failures,but those are the only two that I am aware of. NO failures have been reported here that have not been attributed to misfuels.
4000 miles on my 2012 passat... B2 since the moment I drove it off the lot, with 17 miles on it. PS White thrown in also 3 to 4 oz per fillup, to keep the fuel dry. Most fill ups around 10-14 gallons at most. Have my fingers crossed, running a 6M and not revving it hard, or high or near redline, hopefully helps it last.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 19:43   #3425
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4000 miles on my 2012 passat... B2 since the moment I drove it off the lot, with 17 miles on it. PS White thrown in also 3 to 4 oz per fillup, to keep the fuel dry. Most fill ups around 10-14 gallons at most. Have my fingers crossed, running a 6M and not revving it hard, or high or near redline, hopefully helps it last.
I have 8000 now on my Passat and 18000 on my Jetta, usually buy the cheapest, Walmart, that I can find.

At my last Walmart fuel-up they now have a sticker that says 5% biodiesel. So now I have a cheap close 5% bio source, emailed their customer support about where the bio was sourced. The response was all bio had to meet the specs as described on biodiesel.org.

My experiment of running straight D2 with no additives in the Texas heat like your average Joe is over.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 07:44   #3426
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Originally Posted by dweisel View Post
Yes,there was a 2012 Passat that was misfueled by the dealer and failed with just over 40 miles. 2Micron has a 12 Passat failed pump that also came off a car that was misfueled. I would think there are a few other misfuel failures,but those are the only two that I am aware of. NO failures have been reported here that have not been attributed to misfuels.
Sooo the next logical question is, does the new pump turn into an IED like the previous model?
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Old May 11th, 2012, 08:00   #3427
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Sooo the next logical question is, does the new pump turn into an IED like the previous model?
An aluminum bore is an aluminum bore... starve it of lubrication, and it is a sacrificial metal, it's going to shed bits and pieces, everywhere. Does anyone remember the aluminum bored block failures from Chevy Vega's from the early 1970's? And that was with an oil batch for lubrication.

As long as the housing and bore are made out of aluminum, I don't see this being a fuel pump capable of 300,000 + or more miles before failure, not like the older Bosch VE pumps, pre common rail, like in our A4's.

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Old May 11th, 2012, 08:37   #3428
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Sooo the next logical question is, does the new pump turn into an IED like the previous model?
LOL! Well there have NEVER been ANY EXPLOSIONS yet in any VW CR hpfp. Bad choice of words IMO. Total fuel system contamination,YES. EXPLOSION, NO.

I would suspect the Passat CR fuel system would be subject to the same fuel system contamination as the earlier VW CR's. As of yet we have not had a report here on the forum of a 2012 Passat CR having a hpfp failure that was not misfueled. Which is a good thing. Maybe Bosch has finally come up with the correct metallurgy to make this pump have a long service life. Only time will tell.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 10:53   #3429
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Originally Posted by Niner View Post
An aluminum bore is an aluminum bore...

As long as the housing and bore are made out of aluminum, I don't see this being a fuel pump capable of 300,000 + or more miles before failure, not like the older Bosch VE pumps, pre common rail, like in our A4's.

The CP4.1 has a steel piston. You realize that a steel piston has to ride in a bore made of another material besides steel, right? An aluminum piston riding in a steel bore is not an option for the CP4.1 pump due to the extreme duty cycle of the double lobe cam design. An aluminum piston would get the crap knocked out of it.

The bore is not aluminum because Bosch and VW "cheaped out". It's aluminum because it has to be aluminum.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 11:26   #3430
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LOL! Well there have NEVER been ANY EXPLOSIONS yet in any VW CR hpfp. Bad choice of words IMO. Total fuel system contamination,YES. EXPLOSION, NO.
I would suspect the Passat CR fuel system would be subject to the same fuel system contamination as the earlier VW CR's. As of yet we have not had a report here on the forum of a 2012 Passat CR having a hpfp failure that was not misfueled. Which is a good thing. Maybe Bosch has finally come up with the correct metallurgy to make this pump have a long service life. Only time will tell.
It's still a fragment bomb, like a grenade, with a real slow fuse, that eventually kills the pump and the whole fuel system in short order.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 12:37   #3431
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An aluminum bore is an aluminum bore...
Not quite ... there are many, MANY alloys. Pure aluminum is not useful as a structural material. (Pure "substitute the name of any other metal" is generally not useful as a structural material.) All practical structural materials are alloys, and then there are countless choices plus many possible heat treatments plus many possible coatings on them.

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Does anyone remember the aluminum bored block failures from Chevy Vega's from the early 1970's? And that was with an oil batch for lubrication.
Yep, and a good many modern engines use all-alloy "aluminum" blocks without the traditional cast-iron liners ... made of better alloys and with suitable cylinder bore coatings and finishes and with a better cooling system than the Vega had - the cooling system was a notorious weak point on those!

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As long as the housing and bore are made out of aluminum, I don't see this being a fuel pump capable of 300,000 + or more miles before failure, not like the older Bosch VE pumps, pre common rail, like in our A4's.
Chevrolet Vega aluminum bore was a failure.

I know of a Kawasaki ZX10R motorcycle which revs much higher and makes several times as much power, with over 100,000 miles (not km) on it, and it has never been apart, and that's an aluminum-bore with coatings engine. Not a failure.

It's all in the details.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 14:09   #3432
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It's still a fragment bomb, like a grenade, with a real slow fuse, that eventually kills the pump and the whole fuel system in short order.
Nah,it just wears out and grinds itself to failure. No" fragment bomb" or grenade involved. I would agree that it "eventually kills the pump and the whole fuel system in short order."
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Old May 12th, 2012, 15:21   #3433
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Not quite ... there are many, MANY alloys.
It's all in the details.
I agree. The pump is not a "cheap" pump because it's made of aluminum. If anything, it costs WAY more to make it out of aluminum alloy than cast iron. Again, steel pistons don't like cast iron bores, so the choice is really limited if a steel piston is going to be used (I'm talking about the steel plunger piston directly above the roller follower). Furthermore, steel is the only realistic choice for the piston due to the extreme reciprocating duty cycle of the pump.

Bosch engineers are not dummies. They just f'ed up and assumed that the rest of the world had access to reagent grade Diesel fuel with high lubricity and tight quality control like they have in the FatherLand. I also think that there were quality control issues with early pumps and the piston-to-bore clearances (too tight of a bore clearance resulting in piston seizures regardless of fuel lubricity).

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Old May 12th, 2012, 17:57   #3434
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It's not really they screwed up by making unrealistic assumptions about fuel, the problem is they failed to perform due diligence to ensure their design was suitable for the market. Give a hundred of them to people on this site, ask them to wring the cars out and see if there are any issues.
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Old May 12th, 2012, 18:23   #3435
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It's not really they screwed up by making unrealistic assumptions about fuel, the problem is they failed to perform due diligence to ensure their design was suitable for the market.
May not be either of those. Bosch data on lubricity and HPFP life is well known per the Bosch presentation. VAG knows what Bosch knows.

More than likely, the beancounters determined the cost/benefit of re-engineering vs warranty claims, perhaps without adding in downstream parts failures as a cost to consider.

It won't happen again, as VAG is being held to account by the NHTSA investigation.
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