NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

[scdevon]

Originally Posted by Schaub

So even if I bought an extended warrenty couldnt I still be screwed?

Yes. Extended warranty companies are in the business of NOT paying out money. An extended warranty company would stonewall you on a HPFP claim. They would blame fuel contamination and put you in a 3 way struggle with VW, the fuel station where you last bought fuel and your insurance company.

Just say "no" to these extended warranty scammers. A genuine VW extended warranty would be the safest bet if such a thing is available. Something that doesn't involve a third party AT ALL.

[Second Turbo]

Schaub: > ... I live in Illinois where B11 is pretty standard.
> I don't know near as much as you guys about this but from
> what I've gathered b5 is max recommended blend. So even if
> I bought an extended warranty couldn't I still be screwed?

You might be at risk regardless of what you pour into it.

I'm still pondering what to do about my failing ALH, and just for the heck of it, configured a 2012 JSW TDI on vw.com, which resulted in emails from two regional dealers (even though I'd designated only one of them to do so )

I put some questions to them, paraphrased below. One of them completely ignored the HPFP topic, except to claim that their shop hadn't seen any failures. The other typed like a lawyer was breathing down his neck:

Q. What is the warranty?
A. 3yr/36k* bumper-to-bumper, 5yr/60k drive train.

Q. Is the HPFP covered under drive train?
A. No, but you could beg.

Q. What extended warranty is available?
A. 2yr (neglected to specify miles, if any apply)

Q. Does the EW cover the HPFP?
A. See the booklet (no link provided - I take that as a "no")

It strikes me as entirely possible that VW's final solution to the HPFP problem will be to stop selling TDIs in the US, and offer only the upcoming Jetta Hybrid to people who want 40+ mpg (and price the hybrids to cover VW's liability on the CRs already sold).

______
* I drive 24k per year, so I'd get only 18 months of assured HPFP coverage.

[bhtooefr]

Actually, the newest generation of 1.8TFSI (which is replacing the 2.5 at least in Passats, and possibly in Golfs and Jettas as well) will get very close to the TDIs on highway mileage with a manual, while having 30 more horsepower, and just as much torque (available at LOWER RPM).

[GTIDan]

Drive more/worry less.
Don't let those 1 percent (the sky is falling, the sky is falling) stop you from your purchase. I suspect most of them are afraid to go outside for fear of an asteroid hitting them. Most things in life carry risks.

[kjclow]

Originally Posted by sgoldste01

Man, I wouldn't spend that kind of money proactively. I'd rather see if the HPFP fails, and if it does, get into an argument w/ VW over pattern failures and whether or not they want me to be a repeat customer in the future.

If you think about it as a standard replacement item, the cost, although high, doesn't seem that out of line. Just add $1000 to your timing belt job.

[pknopp]

Originally Posted by kjclow

If you think about it as a standard replacement item, the cost, although high, doesn't seem that out of line. Just add $1000 to your timing belt job.

Or perhaps far less if it turns out that the rebuilds noted earlier are simply replacing the cup and roller.

[Niner]

Originally Posted by pknopp

Or perhaps far less if it turns out that the rebuilds noted earlier are simply replacing the cup and roller.

Except all that metal in your fuel tank and rail and injectors is aluminum...from the bore? The cup and roller, we believe are steel, as well as the piston showing wear.

The way I see it, once the DLC coating wears off, you have abrasive diamonds or DLC coating floating around in your fuel system for ever, until it goes through the injectors and out your exhaust. Can't be non abrasive, it has diamond like hardness, and cuts up everything.

[GTIDan]

Originally Posted by Niner

Except all that metal in your fuel tank and rail and injectors is aluminum...from the bore? The cup and roller, we believe are steel, as well as the piston showing wear.

The way I see it, once the DLC coating wears off, you have abrasive diamonds or DLC coating floating around in your fuel system for ever, until it goes through the injectors and out your exhaust. Can't be non abrasive, it has diamond like hardness, and cuts up everything.

If it's done right it's not going to wear off.........

[pknopp]

Originally Posted by Niner

Except all that metal in your fuel tank and rail and injectors is aluminum...from the bore? The cup and roller, we believe are steel, as well as the piston showing wear.

I don't know. They are being rebuilt. If the barrel is toast then they are boring or sleeving them.

The way I see it, once the DLC coating wears off, you have abrasive diamonds or DLC coating floating around in your fuel system for ever, until it goes through the injectors and out your exhaust. Can't be non abrasive, it has diamond like hardness, and cuts up everything.

I've seen two. One had it's coating shredded and the other didn't. I have plenty of time to find out what is what. I realize that not everyone is in the same situation.

[Second Turbo]

GTIDan: >Drive more/worry less.

I drive quite enough already, and I never worry.
I just make my decisions and carry on.

> Don't let those 1 percent (the sky is falling, the
> sky is falling) stop you from your purchase.

The only thing stopping me from buying a CR is me.

> I suspect most of them are afraid to go outside
> for fear of an asteroid hitting them.
> Most things in life carry risks.

My former route to work had a 0.3% chance of hitting a deer.
I hit five of them (all with the Jetta). Two resulted in
totalled deer and claimable damage, $500 deductable.

This is a risk lower than an HPFP failure, with an out-of-pocket
a mere 6% of HPFP collateral damage. And the deer are a
risk I can insure against. Nonetheless, I changed my route
(to interstate : same transit time, more miles, no deer so far,
not even any close calls, which were monthly before).

I cannot credibly* insure against an HPFP failure, nor take any
steps to improve the odds. This makes buying a CR much less
attractive than other choices available to me. But since I haven't
acted yet, I follow the HPFP story with some interest. VW could
pull a rabbit out of their hat, so to speak.

Even if I decide to fix the P0811 on the ALH, I view that as
temporary, and will continue to watch TDI developments.
_______
* Aftermarket extended warranties are not credible.
VW's factory EWs may be little better.

[bhtooefr]

Although in some states, I hear you can actually insure (rather than warrant) against an HPFP failure.

As in, get a rider on the auto insurance policy that you already have, that covers HPFP replacement all the way up through accidental misfueling.

[HammerTDI]

Originally Posted by Second Turbo

Schaub: > ... I live in Illinois where B11 is pretty standard.
> I don't know near as much as you guys about this but from
> what I've gathered b5 is max recommended blend. So even if
> I bought an extended warranty couldn't I still be screwed?

You might be at risk regardless of what you pour into it.

I'm still pondering what to do about my failing ALH, and just for the heck of it, configured a 2012 JSW TDI on vw.com, which resulted in emails from two regional dealers (even though I'd designated only one of them to do so )

I put some questions to them, paraphrased below. One of them completely ignored the HPFP topic, except to claim that their shop hadn't seen any failures. The other typed like a lawyer was breathing down his neck:

Q. What is the warranty?
A. 3yr/36k* bumper-to-bumper, 5yr/60k drive train.

Q. Is the HPFP covered under drive train?
A. No, but you could beg.

Q. What extended warranty is available?
A. 2yr (neglected to specify miles, if any apply)

Q. Does the EW cover the HPFP?
A. See the booklet (no link provided - I take that as a "no")

It strikes me as entirely possible that VW's final solution to the HPFP problem will be to stop selling TDIs in the US, and offer only the upcoming Jetta Hybrid to people who want 40+ mpg (and price the hybrids to cover VW's liability on the CRs already sold).

______
* I drive 24k per year, so I'd get only 18 months of assured HPFP coverage.

I have a 2012 Jetta TDI w/ DSG transmission. I went through the extended service contract I bought (Fidelity/VW Platinum Easy Drive). It says NOWHERE that the HPFP is excluded. It DOES say that resultant damage (damage caused to other parts by a failed part) are covered.

I bought a 4 yr 100k warranty for $1400 w. $100 deductible. If I don't use the warranty I get the $1400 back when it expires.

[dubStrom]

Originally Posted by HammerTDI

If I don't use the warranty I get the $1400 back when it expires.

Wow. Of course, this does not cover you for metal flakes after 100k. I'd like to have a feeling of confidence after 100k. I really like this wagon (and I am only covered officially to 60k).

As I stated it would be nice to have a product that protects the fuel system from catastrophic failure. You know, that troublesome replacement of fuel tank, fuel lines, other components that run up to near $10k.

The sky is not falling, very often.

[HammerTDI]

Originally Posted by dubStrom

Wow. Of course, this does not cover you for metal flakes after 100k. I'd like to have a feeling of confidence after 100k. I really like this wagon (and I am only covered officially to 60k).

As I stated it would be nice to have a product that protects the fuel system from catastrophic failure. You know, that troublesome replacement of fuel tank, fuel lines, other components that run up to near $10k.

The sky is not falling, very often.

I understand. I will be putting 35,000 miles per year on the car, so that gives me 3 years roughly to watch the HPFP debacle take place. If the HPFP turns out to be a dud, I will get rid of the car for something else. If the 2012's prove to be reliable, i'll keep it till the wheels fall off.

[GTIDan]

Originally Posted by Second Turbo

GTIDan: >Drive more/worry less.

I drive quite enough already, and I never worry.
I just make my decisions and carry on.

> Don't let those 1 percent (the sky is falling, the
> sky is falling) stop you from your purchase.

The only thing stopping me from buying a CR is me.

> I suspect most of them are afraid to go outside
> for fear of an asteroid hitting them.
> Most things in life carry risks.

My former route to work had a 0.3% chance of hitting a deer.
I hit five of them (all with the Jetta). Two resulted in
totalled deer and claimable damage, $500 deductable.

This is a risk lower than an HPFP failure, with an out-of-pocket
a mere 6% of HPFP collateral damage. And the deer are a
risk I can insure against. Nonetheless, I changed my route
(to interstate : same transit time, more miles, no deer so far,
not even any close calls, which were monthly before).

I cannot credibly* insure against an HPFP failure, nor take any
steps to improve the odds. This makes buying a CR much less
attractive than other choices available to me. But since I haven't
acted yet, I follow the HPFP story with some interest. VW could
pull a rabbit out of their hat, so to speak.

Even if I decide to fix the P0811 on the ALH, I view that as
temporary, and will continue to watch TDI developments.
_______
* Aftermarket extended warranties are not credible.
VW's factory EWs may be little better.

OK, your the exception...........don't buy one and stop hitting those deer