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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old February 9th, 2011, 09:37   #1
nutz4vws
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Default Starter solenoid replacement...

Does anyone know if the solenoid (not starter) off a 1997 GTI VR6 M/T will fit as a replacement on a 2002 Jetta TDI M/T?

Thanks!

***Revised***

Here's the deal:

1. Car did not start this morning (WI, 1 deg. F), turned over very slow.
2. Watched voltage at battery:
mid 12V range
while waiting for GP's it droped to mid to high 11V range
while turning over (if that's what you call it) low to mid 11V range
3. The starter/solenoid started smoking... not good IMO.
4. Tried jump starting, solenoid clicks but starter does not make a sound.
5. Push started the car (by hand), damn that was cool, never done a diesel!
6. Warmed up, parked, shut off, and now she starts just fine.

Could it be the battery is dieing and the starter was stuck in the engaged position (therefore it could not engage again)?
Could it be the solenoid is junk (easy to turnover once warm, less power needed)?

About 2 weeks ago I did Wingnut's starter fix (she no longer grinds/squeels on startup)
I all so cleaned up all connection to the starter and grounds (had starting problems in cold weather). This seemed to fix the problem, now it is back, I hate this!

Please Help!

Thanks again

Last edited by nutz4vws; February 9th, 2011 at 10:21.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 10:31   #2
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Bump, for some replies after the revision...
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Old February 10th, 2011, 04:12   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutz4vws View Post
Does anyone know if the solenoid (not starter) off a 1997 GTI VR6 M/T will fit as a replacement on a 2002 Jetta TDI M/T?

Thanks!

***Revised***

Here's the deal:

1. Car did not start this morning (WI, 1 deg. F), turned over very slow.
2. Watched voltage at battery:
mid 12V range
while waiting for GP's it droped to mid to high 11V range
while turning over (if that's what you call it) low to mid 11V range
3. The starter/solenoid started smoking... not good IMO.
4. Tried jump starting, solenoid clicks but starter does not make a sound.
5. Push started the car (by hand), damn that was cool, never done a diesel!
6. Warmed up, parked, shut off, and now she starts just fine.

Could it be the battery is dieing and the starter was stuck in the engaged position (therefore it could not engage again)?
Could it be the solenoid is junk (easy to turnover once warm, less power needed)?

About 2 weeks ago I did Wingnut's starter fix (she no longer grinds/squeels on startup)
I all so cleaned up all connection to the starter and grounds (had starting problems in cold weather). This seemed to fix the problem, now it is back, I hate this!

Please Help!

Thanks again


Something caused that solenoid to overheat:

Some possibilities that would cause the smoke and poor starter response:
1. Poor connections at the solenoid output terminals causing them to arc and smoke. However, you've checked all connections;
2. Solenoid contactor plates making poor contact causing arcing at the plates; or
3. Starter is binding/rotating too slow causing it to draw excessive current.

Also, you said you were getting the solenoid click but no joy at the starter.

My guess is the starter doesn't like the cold for some reason. And, It's possible you may have damaged the solenoid at this point.

Good luck,


Mack
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Old February 10th, 2011, 05:08   #4
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Yes, I do think it is very plausible for the solenoid to be toast. I was wondering if anyone knew if the solenoids off a 97 GTI VR6 and the 02 Jetta TDI were interchangeable...? Both are manual transmission.

Thanks,
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Old February 10th, 2011, 07:03   #5
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Update:

1. Put a new 94R battery in last night, was working while car was still warm

2. Let her cool down, still was good until over night (no start this morning)

3. Bypassed solenoid, starter turns, (BAD SOLENOID!!!)

4. But can't get enough current to starter to start car

5. Parked the car last night not knowing it was in front of an "Out of Order" meter... waiting to get a ticket, What a great day!!!

Sorry just need to vent, just a little.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 10:22   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutz4vws View Post
Update:

1. Put a new 94R battery in last night, was working while car was still warm

2. Let her cool down, still was good until over night (no start this morning)

3. Bypassed solenoid, starter turns, (BAD SOLENOID!!!)

4. But can't get enough current to starter to start car

5. Parked the car last night not knowing it was in front of an "Out of Order" meter... waiting to get a ticket, What a great day!!!

Sorry just need to vent, just a little.

Just so I understand. You bypassed the solenoid but still cant get enough current to start?

Was the battery fully charged. Are the cables (the ones you used to bypass the solenoid) good, and a heavy enough gauge?

Mack
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Old February 10th, 2011, 11:43   #7
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The wire used to bypass the solenoid was not big enough... Do you think that a set of 8 ga. jumper sires would work? Either way I won't hurt to try...
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Old February 10th, 2011, 12:03   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutz4vws View Post
The wire used to bypass the solenoid was not big enough... Do you think that a set of 8 ga. jumper sires would work? Either way I won't hurt to try...

8 gauge sounds a little small. If it's a short run it may burn up. If it's too long you wont get the current you need. Can you get something a little heaver, or run two wires to each terminal, thus doubling the wire gauge?

Mack
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Old February 10th, 2011, 13:07   #9
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Well, that was too small.

So I sit and wait for a friend or two to help push start, so I can go get a new starter and head to a friends garage for install.

Thanks for all your help Mack. Hope the rest of your day goes well.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 13:50   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutz4vws View Post
Well, that was too small.

So I sit and wait for a friend or two to help push start, so I can go get a new starter and head to a friends garage for install.

Thanks for all your help Mack. Hope the rest of your day goes well.

nutz4vws
You said above that you couldn't get enough current to the starter. Are you sure you want to replace the starter before you confirm that it wasn't just a low power issue? I.e., not enough power getting to the starter through the solenoid, or through your jumper cables when you went direct from your battery to your starter.


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Old February 10th, 2011, 14:32   #11
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Not enough current through the jumper cables (too small) when bypassing the solenoid and no current through the solenoid (bad solenoid). So the starter itself is good, but the solenoid is toast. There for the reason for the original question of interchangeable solenoids... but not worth my time as my spare starter for my GTI is 2 hrs North.

The battery is brand new as of last night. I know the battery still has plenty of charge as everything else works as normal, but the starter does not engage, unless the solenoid is bypassed.

Make sense?
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Old February 10th, 2011, 16:37   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutz4vws View Post
Not enough current through the jumper cables (too small) when bypassing the solenoid and no current through the solenoid (bad solenoid). So the starter itself is good, but the solenoid is toast. There for the reason for the original question of interchangeable solenoids... but not worth my time as my spare starter for my GTI is 2 hrs North.

The battery is brand new as of last night. I know the battery still has plenty of charge as everything else works as normal, but the starter does not engage, unless the solenoid is bypassed.

Make sense?


Yes, it all makes sense; it sounds like you only need the solenoid. Can you just change the solenoid and keep your original starter, or maybe like you say it's not worth the trouble.

Also, I'd make sure you have a nice fresh charge on your battery once you've swapped your parts and attempt a start. If things act a little funny you'll want to be able to exclude the battery as a possible problem.


Mack

Last edited by HornetHandler; February 10th, 2011 at 16:41.
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Old February 11th, 2011, 05:29   #13
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Well,
Last night after push starting it, I got in a nice heated shop and changed out the starter. (Yes the battery had a good charge as the shop was ~40 min away)

Results after testing old starter and solenoid (out of vehicle):
1. Solenoid pushes starter gear into engaged position, but does not turn starter
2. Starter turns when solenoid is bypassed

I don't know if there is a direct replacement for the solenoid... Or if the one I have would fit, or if it would be easy to just buy a replacement "fit anywhere with a bracket" would be worth my time. But with a new solenoid and starter I know they both are good-to-go.

Thanks again for all the advise Mack!
Hope you have a good weekend.
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Old February 11th, 2011, 05:37   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutz4vws View Post
Well,
Last night after push starting it, I got in a nice heated shop and changed out the starter. (Yes the battery had a good charge as the shop was ~40 min away)

Results after testing old starter and solenoid (out of vehicle):
1. Solenoid pushes starter gear into engaged position, but does not turn starter
2. Starter turns when solenoid is bypassed

I don't know if there is a direct replacement for the solenoid... Or if the one I have would fit, or if it would be easy to just buy a replacement "fit anywhere with a bracket" would be worth my time. But with a new solenoid and starter I know they both are good-to-go.

Thanks again for all the advise Mack!
Hope you have a good weekend.

No problem my friend; glad you got it sorted out.

Looks like I was the only other one on this thread. Odd ... there's usually lots of good advice on this forum and we learn lots as folks weigh in. You only got the benefit of my two cents, so thankfully it wasn't to complicated and things worked out.


Mack
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