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TDI Fuel Economy Discussions about increasing the fuel economy of your TDI engine. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old March 5th, 2011, 05:50   #46
josh8loop
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Fix et all,

I will keep everyone posted as I progress. I have already begun to snap some photos to document the procedure. I'm not sure I will go the waterless coolant route yet, but I will need to make sure my coolant is spot on to help with cavitation, and hot spots as mentioned earlier. If the T-stat modification process is simple to do, which I think it will be, it would be neat if a few people try it out and report their results aswell. Especially those with a Scan Guage.
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
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Old March 6th, 2011, 10:32   #47
yaknowthatguy
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I'd be quite happy to do a thermostat and watch the results on my scangauge. I monitor tire pressure and such pretty habitually, so I'd be good for it. Please keep us posted and if you would PM when you have a way to get the thermostats (I dont hit this site as much as I'd like).

There are lots of guys with 7.3 liter Powerstrokes, myself included, that have done the upgraded thermostat option. I've been running the 205 tstat for about 100k miles with regular oil sampling on one brand of oil - I've seen no change in wear characteristics of the motor during this time, and that includes watching oil samples for the first 45k miles on the truck. While it's an apples to oranges comparison to a degree, there may be some application to our 1.9 motors.

FWIW I know a guy that disconnected his radiator fan and just ran Evans coolant by itself. Of course, with a gauge and an eye glued to it. No significant issues running it....and that's in Florida in the summer. He also bumped up his mileage on a powerstroke by 2mpg, and that's nothing to shake a stick at. No information on emissions data though.

I think there's a lot of opportunity here, if we can just source the right product. Thanks for all your work on this Josh!
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Old March 7th, 2011, 09:39   #48
josh8loop
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Yaknowthatguy,

I just called Advanced Auto locally, and they have my parts. I will pick it up this afternoon, and see if things are compatible like they should be. Thanks for being willing to give this a try along side me. I will shoot you a PM on the project. I REALLY hope this all works out(increase in MPG w/o engine damage), and hope that I get a WARM and fuzzy feeling about this. I will be getting some photos, and will keep everyone posted. Also, this weekend I read a little in the new Bentley that I got recently about the cooling system, and will posts some thoughts soon.
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!

Last edited by josh8loop; March 7th, 2011 at 10:02.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 11:45   #49
dieselfuel
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Remember, Evans HDTC is only $40/gln. ALOT less money that a head and/or engine.

Just something to keep in mind.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 16:31   #50
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With scangauge to monitor temp he won't have any trouble. I have seen my temps climb up to about 214F on a long up hill grade. My current stat runs about 195-205 most of the time. I just got the luck of the draw that my 195 stat works on the hi side, its been in for about 4 months now and 214 is the highest that i have seen. My grill is totally blocked off except for the air cleaner and inter cooler intake.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 17:05   #51
josh8loop
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Fellas,

Good news, I picked up the parts today and they are perfectly identical except for the temp rating. I went ahead and removed the bypass section from the 195 deg T-stat and pressed it onto the 205 deg T-stat. I measured the dimensions of the 195 T-stat before disassembly so I would know exactly how far to press the bypass section onto the 205 unit. I have taken some photos, which I will see if I can get someone to post on this Thread ,and some videos that I can put on U-Tube.
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
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Old March 7th, 2011, 17:11   #52
josh8loop
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All,


First let me start off by saying that this modification has not been proven to be effective or be safe for our engines. There have been quite a few very knowledgeable guys here that have warned that raising the temp of ALH Type TDI engines could cause engine damage to occur. There have also been some very knowledgeable guys that have said that the increased temperature should be fine for the engine and that no damage would be expected. One thing is for sure the TDI engine doesn't seem to produce a lot of excess heat under normal driving conditions and on non modified engines. Modified engines(Larger Injectors, Tune Etc) however could potentially create excess thermal energy that may prove difficult for the coolant system to remove, and running a higher temperature T-stat in these circumstances may be questionable. I am willing to take a certain amount of calculated risk, and I fully understand that I may cause damage to my engine by running at higher temperatures for the admittedly small(and not proven) increase in MPG. My hope is that this modification works well with no increase in engine wear, and gives a small increase in fuel economy. Here is a video of the initial disassembly of a Stant 13379 (195 Deg F) for the beginning of a "Hybrid" 205 deg F thermostat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU8IAcGIYVo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7hodv7Rsvg



Don't laugh to much-It was difficult to video with one hand, and demonstrate with the other!
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!

Last edited by josh8loop; March 7th, 2011 at 20:05.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 17:20   #53
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Old March 7th, 2011, 18:00   #54
josh8loop
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Reserved


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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!

Last edited by josh8loop; March 8th, 2011 at 13:17.
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Old March 8th, 2011, 08:26   #55
Nich
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Um..... But where is the added efficiency comming from? Hard to imagine 10 degrees temp change would eliminate that much enthalpy losses.
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Old March 8th, 2011, 08:31   #56
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Nice video, Josh. Good job! I'm anxious see see if it works and what temp you are able to get the coolant to.

If this works out, maybe you can make a few and sell them to us, since you already have the tools.
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Old March 8th, 2011, 09:59   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich View Post
Um..... But where is the added efficiency comming from? Hard to imagine 10 degrees temp change would eliminate that much enthalpy losses.
I gained 3 mpg from replacing my bad thermostat (160F) with a new one (190F).

10F more? Maybe 1 mpg more...
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Old March 8th, 2011, 10:54   #58
josh8loop
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DF,

What I liked about this was that the "tools" needed to perform the Hybrid conversion are very few, and can be found in most home garages. I am running a few tests on my car this week with the old T-stat in, mainly keping a watchful eye on my coolant temp via a calibrated thermometer in my overflow tank. The thermometer is a large 6" faced analog unit with a 6 foot capillary tube that goes to the bulb on one end. This allows me to run the car and monitor the temp from the inside while driving. Albeit the rad cap is off while doing this. The temp at the coolant reservoir is a couple degrees different than the coolant outlet flange temp. The highest I saw yesterday was 184 Deg F, the outside temp was about 60 degrees or so. I am surprised to see I am only getting 184, and not the 195 that the T-stat is rated for. I do seem to remember through testing a while back it started to open just barely at 184, so that seems consistent. I will probably not run the new "Hybrid" T-stat until I have a good feel for what the car is doing now.
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
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Old March 8th, 2011, 11:06   #59
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Hi Josh,
For some reason the image does not show only the link i sent to you, this is what happens when I copy the link and past it.
If i edit out the word thumbs from the links you will get the full size photo.






A few more photos from Josh:

"These just show that the two types are identical except for the rear bypass section(has been removed in these photos). "





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Last edited by jayb79; March 8th, 2011 at 16:46. Reason: add photos
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Old March 8th, 2011, 15:33   #60
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Josh,

I just checked my coolant temp, and it was about 184F, too. Outside temp was 50F here.

I think it my cool a little by the time it gets to the coolant tank.

If the hybrid gets you to 205F in the coolant tank, that'd be awesome!

If your hybrid t-stat works, I'll be doing this later this year, after the ARP head studs are installed.
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