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TDI Fuel Economy Discussions about increasing the fuel economy of your TDI engine. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old February 29th, 2012, 13:18   #526
josh8loop
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Originally Posted by SD26 View Post
So...

Did you turn on the AC? Should have kicked on the fans, right?


Assembled my hybrid a little too small. Pressed in the one piece a little too far. Will pop it out a little to match up with a known 195 Stant that I bought to prepare for another hybrid t-stat for my A3 Jetta. Would like to make my A4 Jetta swap Friday along with some "spare" Evans coolant that I have from last years removal from my Excursion.


Yes, actually I did turn on the AC reluctantly. My AC compressor has failed internal bearings that make horrible noises at times and I didn't want to allow it to spin. I turned on the heater on high which helped too. I will have to disconnect the AC electrical connector to see if the fans run when I request the AC.

BTW, for informational purposes when the T-stat is installed on the engine the distance from the rear flat thermostat disc and the internal engine passage that it attempts to close is about 1/4" FWIW.
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Last edited by josh8loop; February 29th, 2012 at 13:23.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 19:28   #527
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Josh, is 216 bad??? I thought folks were running theirs up to 230 with evans, maybe you don't have evans....

On a similar note I put a 92C stat in my passat along with PG coolant (Sierra to flush out the water, will put evans in this weekend). We did this as we put in a new heater core. So now with the temp in the 200F range my heat doesn't seem as hot as before, I know PG doesn't have as much heat capacity as water, is this why the heat is lower??? Anybody else notice this? Im baffled, I assumed with a new core and higher temps I would be roasting. We checked the blender door today and it has full travel.
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Old March 1st, 2012, 06:31   #528
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Hey Guys,

First time posting on this thread, tho i've read through most of it over the last couple months.

Just wondering what is wrong with using the Stant Super Stat? http://www.stant.com/modules/partLoc...m.cfm?id=45379


I've been using this one since about october, and it seems to be holding up pretty good. Temp comes up a lot quicker than it used to, and it levels out at 96C (~205F) which is what you're aiming for with the Hybrid (i know the specs say 195... but its definetly operating higher than that!)

Anyone tried this one before? Have you run into any major issues?
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Old March 1st, 2012, 08:03   #529
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Just wondering what is wrong with using the Stant Super Stat? http://www.stant.com/modules/partLoc...m.cfm?id=45379
Looks like it's just a more durable design and material. I wouldn't think there is anything wrong with it. How much was it?
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Old March 1st, 2012, 13:11   #530
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Coolant dropped, old thermostat removed. Confirmed that it is the 87C model tstat, OEM standard.

I didn't like the way my hybrid tstat looked compared to my measurement of the Stant 195F. The hybrid I made was shorter. Yesterday, I picked up yet another 195F Stant, and I redid my work, and the lengths were now the same. I pressed the piece in a little too far from the 195F onto the 205F.

Installed, filled the cooling system with some old Evans NPG+. Did a shake down drive. No leaks. Added a little fluid, and took a little longer drive. My Scanguage showed my coolant temperature going above my previous "normal" temperature of 175-177 to its highest point of 207F when I entered the "slower area" of town (25MPH). Idled for a little bit while I did another check for leaks and the fluid level, and the temperature came down to 204F before I shut down.

I filled up last night on the way home. Let the data collection begin.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 15:41   #531
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SD26,

What was the ambient temp when you did your testing?
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Old March 4th, 2012, 16:06   #532
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SD26,

What was the ambient temp when you did your testing?
I think we were in the upper twenties today. Can't remember what the weather was like last week, but we weren't having that really nice weather like we had. I'd say in the 30's or so?

Things are on going.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 12:59   #533
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Originally Posted by SD26 View Post
Coolant dropped, old thermostat removed. Confirmed that it is the 87C model tstat, OEM standard.

I didn't like the way my hybrid tstat looked compared to my measurement of the Stant 195F. The hybrid I made was shorter. Yesterday, I picked up yet another 195F Stant, and I redid my work, and the lengths were now the same. I pressed the piece in a little too far from the 195F onto the 205F.

Installed, filled the cooling system with some old Evans NPG+. Did a shake down drive. No leaks. Added a little fluid, and took a little longer drive. My Scanguage showed my coolant temperature going above my previous "normal" temperature of 175-177 to its highest point of 207F when I entered the "slower area" of town (25MPH). Idled for a little bit while I did another check for leaks and the fluid level, and the temperature came down to 204F before I shut down.

I filled up last night on the way home. Let the data collection begin.

Your temps sound about like mine with the "Hybrid" unit. I saw those temps when it got in the lower 40's here a while back too so it looks like you are right on par. Summer time temps will stay very similar to what you are seeing aswell. I usually run 205-209 in the summer as opposed to 205-207 in the winter here in Florida. FWIW


Would be interesting to see if you notice any quicker warm ups?(i'm not expecting faster warmups necessarily BTW)
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
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Old March 5th, 2012, 13:12   #534
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Originally Posted by josh8loop View Post
Would be interesting to see if you notice any quicker warm ups?(i'm not expecting faster warmups necessarily BTW)
You've got great timing...

Did a quick test just a little bit ago. Current ambient temperature is 28-29F.

Drove my A3 Jetta with whatever thermostat it has in it with non Evans coolant in it. Starting from cold, Scanguage stated coolant temperature at 30F. Drove my son to school a seven mile one way trip that has two five stop signs very early on followed by a run to school at 55MPH, then slowing down into town. My temperature at school was about 177F over that seven mile stretch. Total round trip distance was 14 miles

The route back starts with three stop signs, then the run back home at 55MPH into town where I have two stop signs to deal with. My temperature at home was about 188F.

In contrast, my Jetta A4 with the hybrid tstat, Evans NPG+, and the overall OEM gearing allowing the RPMs to be lower at the same speed, my starting cold temperature was 28F. At school arrival (no child for the drop off, but I did do a courtesy stop for research...LOL!), the Scangauge temperature was around 166F. At my arrival at home, my temperature was 200F.


The reason for my test was that it I'm mentally struggling with "how" my A4 warms up. Over the same distance, I eventually achieve a higher temperature, as expected (assuming that my A3 has a thermostat of 187 to 192F). But I'm struggling with the warm up at my half way point: I think that my A4 should similarly warm as my A3 on the first part of this route. One part of me is thinking that this is the result of the Evans coolant, and another part of me is questioning my assembly of the thermostat.
I will fill up tonight as I'll have about 330 miles on this first tank following the change of the thermostat that was in my A4 and the change to Evans coolant.

I could change the coolant in the A3 and do another back to back drive of both cars to control for ambient temperature, and that might be the easiest way to come up with some answers.
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Last edited by SD26; March 5th, 2012 at 13:15.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 17:12   #535
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Originally Posted by SD26 View Post
You've got great timing...

Did a quick test just a little bit ago. Current ambient temperature is 28-29F.

Drove my A3 Jetta with whatever thermostat it has in it with non Evans coolant in it. Starting from cold, Scanguage stated coolant temperature at 30F. Drove my son to school a seven mile one way trip that has two five stop signs very early on followed by a run to school at 55MPH, then slowing down into town. My temperature at school was about 177F over that seven mile stretch. Total round trip distance was 14 miles

The route back starts with three stop signs, then the run back home at 55MPH into town where I have two stop signs to deal with. My temperature at home was about 188F.

In contrast, my Jetta A4 with the hybrid tstat, Evans NPG+, and the overall OEM gearing allowing the RPMs to be lower at the same speed, my starting cold temperature was 28F. At school arrival (no child for the drop off, but I did do a courtesy stop for research...LOL!), the Scangauge temperature was around 166F. At my arrival at home, my temperature was 200F.


The reason for my test was that it I'm mentally struggling with "how" my A4 warms up. Over the same distance, I eventually achieve a higher temperature, as expected (assuming that my A3 has a thermostat of 187 to 192F). But I'm struggling with the warm up at my half way point: I think that my A4 should similarly warm as my A3 on the first part of this route. One part of me is thinking that this is the result of the Evans coolant, and another part of me is questioning my assembly of the thermostat.
I will fill up tonight as I'll have about 330 miles on this first tank following the change of the thermostat that was in my A4 and the change to Evans coolant.

I could change the coolant in the A3 and do another back to back drive of both cars to control for ambient temperature, and that might be the easiest way to come up with some answers.


That is funny how the timing worked out!
I seem to remember that there are for sure differences on how both those cars warm up, but can't remember specifics. I'm sure other guys will chime in about that. I can say however that as long as you are reasonably close(within .010) to the same overall physical length on the "Hybrid" as compared to the 195 Stant stock type T-stat then you will be good to go. By the results of your temperatures it looks like you did a good job with the construction otherwise your results would be different. Looking forward to your results after a few full tanks of fuel pass through.
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
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Old March 5th, 2012, 23:09   #536
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Hooked up my VCDS today and went for a cruise (!). Ambient temp was about 32F. I saw a high of 106.3C via measuring blocks.

I did not check the coolant tank temp, as my digital thermometer isn't working. :> (

106.3C = 225.4F
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Old March 6th, 2012, 00:32   #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh8loop View Post
That is funny how the timing worked out!
I seem to remember that there are for sure differences on how both those cars warm up, but can't remember specifics. I'm sure other guys will chime in about that. I can say however that as long as you are reasonably close(within .010) to the same overall physical length on the "Hybrid" as compared to the 195 Stant stock type T-stat then you will be good to go. By the results of your temperatures it looks like you did a good job with the construction otherwise your results would be different. Looking forward to your results after a few full tanks of fuel pass through.
Well, my results are certainly changing... LOL!

Just got home. My commute is about 27 miles long. Scangauge stated my starting coolant temperature at 35F, and I think the ambient temperature was right around 29F.

Long story short: I was not able to hit 200F on the way to work nor on the way home. I got to 193F on the way home. That was at 55MPH just outside of town, then I slow to 45, 30, then 25 and into my driveway. Temp dropped to low 170's in that mile of slowing down. So, something is amiss with my thermostat.

Filled up with fuel. Did get 51.5MPG. Slight improvement over some of my data, but, intuitively, the temperatures just haven't seemed right...and are now certainly getting worse. All seems to be going in the right direction, but I'll have to revisit the thermostat assembly.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 11:39   #538
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Dropped the Evans coolant, removed the hybrid tstat I made. Really appears to be the same length as the 195F that I have in my hand.

Used a scale I had in the garage, crude, and pushed on the top hat portion of each to see if one had less spring rate that I could recognize. Nothing obvious at all.

Did find a Wahler 198F tstat on line last night/this morning, and I ordered that just to have for inventory/use/testing. My debate right now it whether I should just put in the Stant assembled 195F tstat to get back to some consistency for data collection until I can figure out what I did wrong with my hybrid assembly...and I think that's the route I should follow right now.

195F going in for now...
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Old March 6th, 2012, 16:46   #539
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Where did you find that Wahler 198F stat ?????
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Old March 7th, 2012, 00:23   #540
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Where did you find that Wahler 198F stat ?????
Was late last night or in the morning, depending upon how you look at it...

http://www.thepartsbin.com/catalog/?...633589&x=0&y=0

I think I'll put that one in my older Jetta, and continue work on the hybrid for my A4.


The 195F thermostat was good. Didn't have the drop off of temperatures like yesterday. Temp came up that seemed normal, and then it maintained its temperature right around 197 to 200F with it touching a couple degrees on either side occasionally. Would still like those extra ten degrees though... Rain tomorrow, so, I'm unsure if I can get it done. Will finish my oil change that I started (the drain part) in the morning.

Tracking number is saying that I'll have the thermostat tomorrow also. Can't complain!
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