Ran for 20 min, hit the highway for 4 miles, and then DIED!!

long and short: what's the best stuff to use to prevent fuel gelling?? I would think the fuel dealer (Shell) would add anti-gel to the fuel when buying....

Was a GREAT (read: THICK sarcasm...) DAY!!

-Headed to 1st day on NEW job after being out of work for 1.5yrs.
-was GOING to be 20 minutes early....
-ended up 1 hr 10 min late!!
-spent a total of 2 hrs in the car this AM and it was 5 degrees out!! talk about almost frostbite!!!
-tow driver NEVER showed up...
-Wife had to come 'rescue' me after being up ALL night in the ER (she was sick...)
-by the time she drove me the 20 min there, and 20 min back to the car...it was GONE. (The tow company picked up the WRONG silver Jetta...)
- The wife spent ALL day (remember, no sleep...) trying to track down the car and get it home...

- Got it home, added some powerservice, and let it run for 15 minutes.... took it for a ride 1.5 miles from home, and it DIED AGAIN JUST @ the entrance to the on ramp to the highway... and the "NICE" cop allowed us to SIT in the car (our STONE COLD, non-running car, that is ) AFTER he got there, for an EXTRA 50 minutes... (Was there for 30 prior to his arrival ) THANKS BUDDY. (was JUST above zero...




SO... fuel gelling waxing...(what it seems like... VERY common around the AREA as of the past day or two...) What should I use??


Thanks for letting me rant...was NOT a good day.

Power service in the white bottle works really well, but once your filter is clogged with wax, etc. it's hard to get it flowing again without replacing it. New filter filled with power service and a good dose in the tank at every fill should work just fine.

My truck gelled up last year on me. Died but luckily I got it restarted and limped it to the garage to change the filter.

Ugh...

G-force...

thanks for the reply.

Changed the filter, (filled it also) (old was dirty, but DID NOT look waxed...from what you can see...)

fuel looked pretty good (been sitting in a 40 deg garage for 24hrs...)

charged up the battery overnight too...



Cranked and no start... not a kick, NOTHING...

figured the fuel pickup might be clogged/waxed/gelled.... pulled the rear seat, and the sender, and NOTHING.. although I did drain the sending unit, etc and there was a few water droplets in the cup

made sure the rubber (is it a one-way?? valve on the bottom was free...

put it back in, and still nothing..


is there a intank fuel pump?? is that what 2 of the 4 wires is for?? looks like a pump. I don't hear this turning on, if so.

is it possible the tandem pump is gelled up?? everything else looked super...


if it's anything OTHER than fuel waxing/gelling (it was -10 overnight here...VERY unseasonably cold...) I'm stumped, and it's totally coincidental...


HELP!

Under the rear seat is the access for the in tank fuel pump on your '04. It should turn on when the ignition key is turned on. Good luck.

GR40RCapri said:

figured the fuel pickup might be clogged/waxed/gelled.... pulled the rear seat, and the sender, and NOTHING.. ....

made sure the rubber (is it a one-way?? valve on the bottom was free...

put it back in, and still nothing..


is there a intank fuel pump?? is that what 2 of the 4 wires is for?? looks like a pump. I don't hear this turning on, if so.

Click to expand...

aja8888 said:

Under the rear seat is the access for the in tank fuel pump on your '04. It should turn on when the ignition key is turned on. Good luck.

Click to expand...

Hey AJA... see above

I have the access cover open...how loud is the pump?? I can't really hear it with all the dinging, and etc

Or should I test the pin-outs for power coming from the ECU?


thanks,

Jay

While I don't have the same car (Passat), but the same pump, I can hear mine pressure up when I turn the key with the rear seat over it. It is not quiet. Check for power at the pump and maybe fuses? Relay?

Stay warm (hopefully).

Tony

If it's never been changed, it's probably dead. Mine was apparently dead since I bought the car but I couldn't tell until I tested it. Fuel line into a bottle - cycle key - nothing. Also put my hand on the top of the pump and there was no vibrations. Now that I have a new one, I can hear it kick on when I turn on the ignition.

i feel your pain i just started a thread for the very same issue!

How cold does it have to be for this to be an issue ? I am new to diesels.

Sundownz- this guys problem is likely not gelling, but lift pump failure. Regarding your question: Untreated fuel is probably good down into the 20's (F), treated fuel probably no issue down to temps us in nc will never see.

Also, our cars have the thermostatic tee's in the fuel filter, which is supposed to divert warm fuel from injection pump into filter to keep from gelling.

I've run mine with untreated fuel after being left out in 10F, and it did fine. Worried about it, though.

Excellent - thanks for the information. I will have to do some more research on this topic.

You should Like snow tires here in the northeast start with powerservice around thanksgiving nad stop at easter as general rule. You will never know what condition the diesel stations tanks are. If you do the fuel treatment yourself then you know its condition. ANd you get a head start for the season. Powerservice 911 in teh red bottle for COLD COLD COLD times.

It could have been a combination of jelling and a bad lift pump. The one and only time I've had jelling in the truck it was about -10F. Hit that the beginning of this week but all 4 of our diesels were just fine.

gforce1108 said:

If it's never been changed, it's probably dead. Mine was apparently dead since I bought the car but I couldn't tell until I tested it. Fuel line into a bottle - cycle key - nothing. Also put my hand on the top of the pump and there was no vibrations. Now that I have a new one, I can hear it kick on when I turn on the ignition.

Click to expand...

So...are you saying you were driving the car with little-no issues WITH a FAILED in-tank/lift pump??

That MIGHT be the case with this car...I don't EVER really remember hearing a tank pump...

It looks like the relay (a TOTAL B*TCH!! to get to, btw...) is #109??? (saw that on the net somewhere...) someone correct me if i'm wrong, but also looks to control the glow plugs as well (just rcv'd the notification from VWoA in the mail yesterday..)??? Reason I say this... I pulled it, moved to Key on position, and the GP light did not go on. reinstalled the relay, and the PG light came on. so the relay is switching...

I'm trying to troubleshoot (And i'm not going to REPLACE a $300-400?? pump by just 'not hearing it...' with that said... ANYONE know the pin-outs for the sending unit connector? wanna test for power.

I'm getting ZERO codes related to pump/etc..

one (total of 4) for each Glow plug
one for MAF
2 for CTS (one out of range up top, and one out of range below limits..)

MAF just needs resetting. car's been fine after cleaning it....
and the CTS gets erratic (temp gauge drops to zero, and then up to normal...)


i'm all ears

My '04 BEW ran fine with a dead in-tank lift pump for an unknown period. Somebody had to tell me that the pump was dead; I had no idea. When my tandem pump failed, it would still start and idle, but it would "starve" and die as I tried to drive, sometimes within a few hundred feet, sometimes I would make it a few miles.

halzg said:

My '04 BEW ran fine with a dead in-tank lift pump for an unknown period. Somebody had to tell me that the pump was dead; I had no idea. When my tandem pump failed, it would still start and idle, but it would "starve" and die as I tried to drive, sometimes within a few hundred feet, sometimes I would make it a few miles.

Click to expand...

hmm...how would I test the tandem pump?? would there be a code??

would a failed lift pump cause the tandem to die ( put more load on the inlet side of the pump.....)


So...theoretically, it sounds like there is not a REAL need for the in-tank....

honestly, really tough to swallow the $400 the dealer wants for the WHOLE unit...when a Bosch pump is well under $100 for just the unit...

J

GR40RCapri said:

hmm...how would I test the tandem pump?? would there be a code??

would a failed lift pump cause the tandem to die ( put more load on the inlet side of the pump.....)


So...theoretically, it sounds like there is not a REAL need for the in-tank....

honestly, really tough to swallow the $400 the dealer wants for the WHOLE unit...when a Bosch pump is well under $100 for just the unit...

J

Click to expand...

J: Check Peter's price:

http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=585

aja8888 said:

J: Check Peter's price:

http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=585

Click to expand...

That's a bit better I'm still tossing around the thought of why installing a Bosch pump in the original canister wouldn't work... I don't need the fuel level sending unit, etc...

I found this interesting...

DanG144 said:

Yes,
If you have no air leaks in your fuel lines, our PD's can run with no fuel pump. But that tiny hole in the eductor jet is not going to supply much fuel.

Thanks for the data on the vacuum.

Dan

Click to expand...

found here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2322328&postcount=23

on this thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=225672


maybe THIS is why the car shut down...as this TINY orifice was CLOGGED with a bit of gelled fuel, or wax...the engine used what was available (although, the fuel filter was full?????) ...

just thinking out loud... any techies around to theorize with me??

thanks guys....

Jay

My lift pump was dead since I bought the car. I drove it for about 8k miles, then replaced it. I don't notice any difference between having it with a working pump vs. a non-working pump. Only difference is that I hear the pump when I turn the key.

Car is running again... WITH the original, dead pump... i've tested the wiring, and relay, and it IS in fact, sending POWER to the pump.... pump is dead...

can't afford the $380 the dealer wants for the part..... so we'll be exercising OTHER means of purchase... I don't need THIS happening again...

J

are you guys with gelled fuel parking on the outside or in a garage at night? Temps hit -19 in Mass but we had no issues. Parked in a garage.