hybrid cluster: mk3 clocks in mk2 cluster housing?

myke_w

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Hi Guys,

I'm struggling with a way to have a factory look in my mk2 ahu/1z conversion without going through all the pain of a dash conversion.

I like the mk2 dash and cluster, but I also like cruise and I don't want to convert to a cable for speedo.

I've seen a few people manage to stuff a mk3 cluster into a mk2 dash, but much of the time it looks forced.

I've seen even fewer folks use a passat cluster, and that actually looks ok from the pics, but I have no idea how it would be done.
see pic - http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/pencapchew_k/clusterfit.jpg


My thought is to try to remove the clocks from the mk3 cluster and build them into the mk2 housing (with some supporting material holding them in place) and with the electronic circuit board located further back - which would connect to the clocks with wire.

I have a mk3 cluster here in front of me (and a mk2 housing) and it really looks like there's nothing stopping the clocks from coming clear off the board once the four big solder joints for each is de-soldered and the corresponding fastening screws are removed..

The idea is then that the fuel and temp sections could be nestled somewhere else (middle or perhaps remote located altogether) or the mk2 fuel gauge and maybe even temp gauge could be reused if the installation were done carefully enough.

All of the desired idiot lights could then be wired to leds in the mk2 cluster (gp, turns, low coolant battery etc. one could even take the mil to a new led if desired)

I guess my question is.. has anybody tried it?

Anybody see any reason it wouldn't work?
 

m1ketdi

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Hi Guys,

I have a mk3 cluster here in front of me (and a mk2 housing) and it really looks like there's nothing stopping the clocks from coming clear off the board once the four big solder joints for each is de-soldered and the corresponding fastening screws are removed..
The clock faces will come off without any desoldering required. All you do need to do is pry off the speedo and rev counter needles and undo the screws and they will come away.
 

tongboy

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the mk2 tacho unit will work with any of the newer ecu's with an adapter and some wiring - no reason to hack in a new unit.

if you just MUST got to the newer speed unit it can probably be done but why not just get the proper 'raddo cable and feed the ecu with the outputs from the mk2 gauges?

it's a lot easier to get the proper mk2 o2a/o2j speedo cable and the engine bay isn't appreciably messier because of the extra cord/wire
 

BigVWman

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You can do it, i explored it when i did mine. i even had it wired up with the actually mk3 gauges in the mk1 housing in my case and then wires over to the mk3 cluster board that i hid behind the dash. I hated it bulky and a big glob of useless extra work. I eventually gave up on the mk3 gauges and went with late mk1 cluster driven by an ebay tach gizmo. it is clean and works great!
 

myke_w

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the mk2 tacho unit will work with any of the newer ecu's with an adapter and some wiring - no reason to hack in a new unit.

if you just MUST got to the newer speed unit it can probably be done but why not just get the proper 'raddo cable and feed the ecu with the outputs from the mk2 gauges?

it's a lot easier to get the proper mk2 o2a/o2j speedo cable and the engine bay isn't appreciably messier because of the extra cord/wire
I gather that cable is no longer available new and that there are problems getting cruise to work with the mk2 speed sensor in the cluster.

If I'm wrong please point me in the right direction. Again, I'd far prefer a stock mk2 cluster
 

BigVWman

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No problem with cruise using 3 wire vss on the later mk2 clusters. IIRC the part number for the cable is: DRIVECABLE [Part# 535957803 Price:$66.60, at auburn vw but double check that its the right cable! You will also still need a tach adapter unless i'm mistaken. i got mine from ebay similar to item #220589941354. Good luck
 

GTiTDi

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mk2 1z swap

I am doing the exact same swap as we speak except with a 91 GTI 8valve, and I am pondering the same problem..what cluster to use..I have the passat cluster from the donor car and the GTI cluster, and obviously the passat cluster is way wider..and I noticed in the picture of the mk2 with passat cluster I don't see where they put the headlight switch..I would like to use the stock cluster if I can...but after I saw the passat cluster in there I thought its all plug n play, no tach adapter necessary, and no cable to hassle with(or buy, one site wants 106.00) why not? I am currently looking at the two dashes side by side to determine what to do..but If it ends up being too much trouble I would also like to know what tach adapter to use
 

myke_w

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No problem with cruise using 3 wire vss on the later mk2 clusters. IIRC the part number for the cable is: DRIVECABLE [Part# 535957803 Price:$66.60, at auburn vw but double check that its the right cable! You will also still need a tach adapter unless i'm mistaken. i got mine from ebay similar to item #220589941354. Good luck
Nice, now supposing I can actually get the cable.. which drive gear do I use for the gearbox? is it as simple as swapping the one off the speed sensor in the 02A? I cant really envision it.

for example - the one in this pic looks quite different from the mk2 ones I'm used to.

 
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BigVWman

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The existing speed sensor in your trans should unscrew from the gear assembly. Allowing you to then screw the cable on to it. The existing speed sensor is usually a two part piece, the gear assemby and the electronic sending unit. IIRC

I just checked mine i have one that is two piece and the electronic sending unit unscrews and one that is one piece and doesn't unscrew, not sure where or why they are different. Best bet is check the one you have and see if its two piece or not.
 
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tongboy

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I gather that cable is no longer available new and that there are problems getting cruise to work with the mk2 speed sensor in the cluster.
If I'm wrong please point me in the right direction. Again, I'd far prefer a stock mk2 cluster
I haven't been able to find a VW part that is 100% fit - I have the vw part straight from auburn and it required another piece to work.

there are a few places to buy the correct proper fit corrado cable
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/2001/HD_Corrado_Speedometer_Cable

http://www.speedometerplus.com/

both sell units that should work without any extra pieces.

the cruise is easy to wire in - you pull the speedo wiring off of the back of the cluster - the cluster must have an MFA unit to have the wiring output for the cruise - it's extra wires through the firewall but is easier then doing something else funky.
 

myke_w

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Oh, does any body have a picture of the vss on the mfa cluster they could share

?I only have standard mk2 clusters in my pile.
 

BigVWman

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tongboy

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Tongboy- Just curious what is the difference between the one that bahnbrenner shows and the part number i used? They appear the same in the pictures?
the one that bbm & the speedo place sell goes from the tranny output to the back of the cluster - the one that I bought from vw for the corrado (via etka to find the right one) goes from the tranny output to the o2 indicator light counter box - basically you have to get another small speedo piece to screw into the end of the vw end and plug into the back of the cluster - it ends up being too long compared to the "proper" cable length
 

BigVWman

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the one that bbm & the speedo place sell goes from the tranny output to the back of the cluster - the one that I bought from vw for the corrado (via etka to find the right one) goes from the tranny output to the o2 indicator light counter box - basically you have to get another small speedo piece to screw into the end of the vw end and plug into the back of the cluster - it ends up being too long compared to the "proper" cable length
The part number i listed is the one without the o2 box! if you look at ETKA 235-00 its likely they gave you the lower cable in the drawing which is 2 piece with a gizmo in between the part number i quoted is the one piece for an 89 corrado manual trans it shows direct from speedo to trans gear, unless i am missing something?
 

CrAzYDr1veR

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i used to have a speedo cable from an older g60 (newer ones uses speed sensor) but now i am making the hybrid stuff like you said...
 

tongboy

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The part number i listed is the one without the o2 box! if you look at ETKA 235-00 its likely they gave you the lower cable in the drawing which is 2 piece with a gizmo in between the part number i quoted is the one piece for an 89 corrado manual trans it shows direct from speedo to trans gear, unless i am missing something?
good info! - I'd totally buy that they used different parts over the years
 

myke_w

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http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj121/BigVWman/IMG_0282-1.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj121/BigVWman/IMG_0284-1.jpg
in the first pic its the white gizmo next to the speedo cable attachment point and in the second(different cluster) its the black gizmo flopping around. Its important that it be this style -3 wire- as there is also an earlier two wire that won't work. I have found some on non mfa clusters as well just as the second pic.

Ok, I've found an mfa cluster with the 3 wire vss - but now I have another issue. The current track is different between my mk2 ce2 diesel custer and the mfa. I'd like to use the diesel cluster for the glow plug position and native diesel tach. Any thoughts on how to get around this one?


see pics

mk2 ce2 with old style vss



mk2 ce2 with new style vss (mfa)

 

myke_w

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Another question, Does anybody here have any experience with getting mk2 diesel or gas tachometers to work with mk3 / b4 wiring??
I've seen folks saying to use an adapter, but I'm not quite sure what kind of signal I'm adapting from / to. Can anybody shed light on that?
 

markdelevo

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PA
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i am very sorry to ask this question on this thread but i couldnt find exact part yet.
I am trying to put 02A tranny with 1z m-tdi in my vw mk1, which speedometer should i use to be able to use mk1 speedometer?
Thanks for kindly helps.
 

BigVWman

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Another question, Does anybody here have any experience with getting mk2 diesel or gas tachometers to work with mk3 / b4 wiring??
I've seen folks saying to use an adapter, but I'm not quite sure what kind of signal I'm adapting from / to. Can anybody shed light on that?
Yep, Your above question you can still use diesel cluster and wire the vss direct if you want it doesn't necessarily have to go through the same plug as everything else its just a little neater.Th eimportant thing is to use the three wire sender on whichever cluster you use. On the second question of adapter for tach you will likely need one. IIRC the technical issue is going from a 5v signal which the ecu puts out for mk3 to a 12v signal like the mk2 and mk1 tach's are looking for. I gave the ebay auction number in previous post for the one I used from baker electronics it was really plug and play for the most part!
 

tongboy

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Yep, Your above question you can still use diesel cluster and wire the vss direct if you want it doesn't necessarily have to go through the same plug as everything else its just a little neater.Th eimportant thing is to use the three wire sender on whichever cluster you use. On the second question of adapter for tach you will likely need one. IIRC the technical issue is going from a 5v signal which the ecu puts out for mk3 to a 12v signal like the mk2 and mk1 tach's are looking for. I gave the ebay auction number in previous post for the one I used from baker electronics it was really plug and play for the most part!
I'm late to this party - I'm guessing you guys already addressed this.

I used a baker tach adapter for a long time with zero issues with my alh swap and a mk3 cluster but I could never get it to work with a mk2 cluster - and I tried sourcing the rpm signal from EVERYWHERE. I finally went to what the 1.8t swap guys run - the MSD digital converter box and I tried plumbing it a few different ways and finally it worked. Granted this was with a ce2 gli tach.

I have not been able to source a ce2 diesel tach and I don't believe they made a ce2 diesel tach with an MFA - if they did it should be plug & play but if you're trying to mingle a ce1 diesel tach w/mfa & a ce2 - good luck - it can probably be done but it's going to be difficult.

you can easily put a bulb into the location for the diesel glow plug and wire it and get a gauge overlay that would indicate the different RPM window but the tach sweep will be wrong still of course.
 

jimbote

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Another question, Does anybody here have any experience with getting mk2 diesel or gas tachometers to work with mk3 / b4 wiring??
I've seen folks saying to use an adapter, but I'm not quite sure what kind of signal I'm adapting from / to. Can anybody shed light on that?
mike ...I'm sure it would be no problem using the MK2 gasser tach with a b4/a3 tdi ecm...as they have a tach output and probably use a 2 pulse per rev output signal...just what the gasser tach looks for....but I would say a definitive "NO" on using the diesel mkII tach with the ecu's output...it will simply run super slow as the diesel tach is looking for many more pulses per rev than a gasser due to running off of the alt. ....I used a gasser mkI gti tach in my caddy diesel using a magnetic speedo pickup from a ford transmission.... http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=3741.30 ...and on my tacoma TDI swap I used the ALH ecm tach output to drive the toyota tach directly....most (if not all) four cylinder gasser tachs look for a two pulse per revo signal ...hope this helps or maybe this is not what you're asking:rolleyes: .... http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2400772&postcount=142
 
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BigVWman

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The mk2 diesel tach should work with a tach signal adapter. The mk2 diesel tach is looking for 12v signal just as my mk1 tach was. The output off the ecu is 5v IIRC. The baker electronics unit worked fine for me and was more reasonably priced than the msd dakota or others. Just make sure you get the right one, many tach adapters change the pulse frequency not the voltage. There is a fairly in depth explanation of the signal on here by eclipse iirc.
 

myke_w

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mike ...I'm sure it would be no problem using the MK2 gasser tach with a b4/a3 tdi ecm...as they have a tach output and probably use a 2 pulse per rev output signal...just what the gasser tach looks for....but I would say a definitive "NO" on using the diesel mkII tach with the ecu's output...it will simply run super slow as the diesel tach is looking for many more pulses per rev than a gasser due to running off of the alt. ....I used a gasser mkI gti tach in my caddy diesel using a magnetic speedo pickup from a ford transmission.... http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=3741.30 ...and on my tacoma TDI swap I used the ALH ecm tach output to drive the toyota tach directly....most (if not all) four cylinder gasser tachs look for a two pulse per revo signal ...hope this helps or maybe this is not what you're asking:rolleyes: .... http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2400772&postcount=142
Sorry it's been so long.. It takes more and more planning to spend any time on my own projects anymore.

Actually that helps greatly. So it pretty much looks like I'll need to use a late gasser cluster, possibly a tach adapter, and definitely find one with the proper vss so that I can use cruise. I'll need to figure out how to hack the glow plug light in, but that should be pretty simple.
 

myke_w

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. I gave the ebay auction number in previous post for the one I used from baker electronics it was really plug and play for the most part!
There appear to be 2 different options on this converter they offer.

one is a tach signal divider (of which there are 2 choices), the other one is a tach signal inverter

ex. http://www.bakerelectronix.com/products_tsd/

Do you remember off hand which one you ended up using that works?
 
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